Which mics would give my small collection balance and versatility?

Samantha C.

New member
Hello all. First post here. :)

I was hoping someone could give me some good recommendations on what mics would be best to buy so I can balance out my small collection?

I currently have:
an Audio-Technica AT4033
a shure SM58
an Audio-Technica ATM41a

I need a lot of flexibility as I will be recording drums (likely a 4 mic setup), guitar & bass cabs, vocals, etc. (but not all at the same time). I also would like to be able to do some stereo xy recording at live gigs with my laptop so I didn't know if I should get a pair of SM57's or a single stereo mic?

Also, I definitely need a main vocal mic because the AT4033 hasn't cut it for a lot of the male vocals I've recorded but it sounds great on mine. :)

My budget is rather flexible... from $600-$1000 for the time being. But I'll continue adding mics in the coming months.

I was looking at 2 SM57's (for stereo), an AT4040 or AT4050 for my main vocal mic, but don't really know where to go beyond there or if those are good options.

I'd really appreciate some advice from you guys on this. :)
Thanks so much,
Samantha
 
You might want a pair (or just one) of 57s but not for stereo recording. For that and drum overheads you'll want a pair of small diaphragm condensers. With your budget you'll want to look at Octava, MXL, or Studio Projects for those.

The male vocal mic is tough to choose without audition, but those ATs are well regarded mics.

Look for a kick drum mic too, and you should be fairly well off and within your total budget.
 
For sure a real large diaphragm condensor. I used an AT 4033 for a long time and didn't get quite what I wanted. Then I found out it wasn't a real large diaphragm and realized what I was wanting to hear. There are just too many inexpensive ones out there to list at all kinds of price points. Then a couple of small diaphragm condensors to round it out. Toss a kick mic in there and you have everything you need to do anything you would want.

H2H
 
If you can get phantom power to your mics for doing the gigs, a pair of small condensers will cover a lot of ground. X/Y, drum overheads, acoustic guitar or maybe one as a distance mic on a guitar cab.

One thing that might be useful is a hardcore dynamic mic like a Shure SM7 or Electro-Voice RE-20. Broadcast vocal dynamic microphones that sound good on kick drum, electric guitar, bass and a lot of different vocals. These are workhorse mics.


sl
 
- a second AT4033 might be a choice for stereo
- a large diaphragm dynamic such as the RE20 which will be great on lots of vocals, kick, bass ....
- much as I hate it an sm57 for snare is an old reliable and will do lots of other jobs

hehe I see snow lizard preempted me on the dynamic
 
I like 57's as well, but I'm not sure what the ATM mic is like - perhaps similar? The SM58 is almost the same mic.


sl
 
As already mentioned I think you'll get a lot of miles out of a couple of small condensers (overheads/acoustic guitars) and an SM7 or RE20 (vocals/kick).
 
Samantha C. said:
<snip> I also would like to be able to do some stereo xy recording at live gigs with my laptop so I didn't know if I should get a pair of SM57's or a single stereo mic? <snip>

I was looking at 2 SM57's (for stereo) <snip>

I'd really appreciate some advice from you guys on this. :)
Thanks so much,
Samantha
Hi Samantha, I recommend getting a pair of Shure SM81's for the live stereo recordings. Don :)
 
Hi.

I would go with another AT4033 for your stereo overheads, and 2 Shure SM57 for snare and kick duty (yes, the 57 can do a fine job on kick). As you move along later it'll be nice to have 2 57's when you get into double snare mic'ing / cab mic'ing etc.

For a great go to vocal mic the CAD VSM handles lots of voices well. The Studio Projects T3 is a standout in their lineup and a good investment for vocal duties and tons of other stuff.

AT4033
SM57
SM57
SP T3

Comes in around $1k new anyhow.

War
 
For me the must have microphones are: a couple of versatile dynamics like MD421, at least one Beyer M201, a pair of decent SDC's, a decent LDC and a nice ribbon mic like Beyer M160 or 260.

A Sennheiser MD441 will please you as well, a pair will make you very happy.

And if you win the lottery, buy a hi end microphone, I've bought a Neumann M149 in 1996 and I've never had any regrets.
 
snow lizard said:
I like 57's as well, but I'm not sure what the ATM mic is like - perhaps similar? The SM58 is almost the same mic.


sl

The ATM41a has even more presence boost than the 57 and can be quite harsh, I got two of them for $80 shipped from USA to Ireland even at that low price I'd think twice about getting them again.
 
Yo Samantha! Welcome to the board. In my mind, I classify mics into certain categories. They are not technical categories entirely, just what you use them for.

Cheap dynamics- Gotta have a couple for drums, especially snare, and they are often the vocal mic of last resort- Shure SM57, SM58, Sennheiser e835, e845, AKG D690, D770,Electrovoice EN/D257 are among my favorites. Sennheiser MD421 is a better one, but isn't as cheap as the others.

Higher end dynamics- These do what the mics above do- better- and more. For many singers, they are simply the right mic. They can also make great stage mics. Standards include Shure SM7, SM7B (basically the same mic), Sennheiser MD441, Electrovoice RE20, Beyerdynamic M69 TG and M88 TG, and several discontinued models. You can't go wrong with any of them.

Small diaphragm condensers- some times called "pencil mics". You really need a pair. Quality goes up with price, it's that simple. Cheap- Marshall MXL603 low mid priced- Studio Projects C-4, Rode NT5 High mid priced-Shure SM81, AKG C451 Low high priced-Josephson C42, Neumann KM184, Earthworks SR-71 To die for- Shoeps CM6, DPA. Don's suggestion of SM81 isn't a bad suggestion at all, but would suck up most of your budget. This type of mic is good on acoustic instruments such as guitar, mandolin, bango, violin, piano, as drum overheads, and as a pair for stereo recording. They usually aren't so hot for vocal mics.

Large diaphragm (non-tube) condensers- These may or may not have transformers, and are commonly used for vocals, especially clean stuff. There are bizzillions of models. I can only list a few of my favorites- Cheap-Marshall MXL V67, Oktava MK319 Mid Priced-Audo-Technica AT4040, B.L.U.E. Baby Bottle, ADK Hamburg Edition and Vienna Edition Low high priced-B.L.U.E. Dragonfly, Soundelux U195, Microtech Gefell M930 Pricey as Hell-Neumann U87 and U47 FET, B.L.U.E. Kiwi, B.L.U.E. Bottle.

Large Diaphragm Tube mics- These are also commonly used as vocal mics, and tend to be flattering, more than accurate. They tend to airbrush sound a little, and may be good on some instruments- I don't like any of the cheap ones much. Good ones start at about $500 and go up- Mid priced- Rode NTK, Studio Projects T3 Low high priced- AT 4060, ADK TT Pricey- B.L.U.E. Cactus, Lawson L47 MKII, Soundelux U99, Microtech Gefell M990, Rode Classic II To die for- Brauner Valvet, Manley reference, Neumann U47 (sell the car)
Note that the really high end ones don't really airbrush much, they just rock.

Workhorses- These may be large diaphragm condensers, or small diaphragms, but tend to come in smaller housings than the vocal standards. These are mics that you can stick in front of almost anything. They are the swiss army mics you put up when you don't know what to put up, and they rock on acoustic instruments, and some singers. Cheap-Studio Projects B1, AKG C2000B, CAD M179, ADK A-51, AT4033 Mid priced-ADK A-51 TL, AKG C414 (there are 5 different models, 3 of them discontinued, and they all fit this category), Shure KSM44. Pricey- Soundelux ifet7, Microtech Gefell UMT800.

Ribbon mics- The smaller ones, like the Royers, are great on brass, strings, piano, and the larger ones, like RCA and AEA models, are classic vintage vocal mics. Delicate and expensive, they won't be your first mics, but they will become desireable down the road.

Specialty mics- There are a number of types for specific applications, shotgun mics, stereo mics. One type that may be relevent to you are dedicated low frequency mics, usually dynamics, good for bass and kick drum. I like AKG D112 and Audix D6. If one doesn't work, the other one usually will. They do the same job very differently.


OK Samantha, what does all this mean to you? I've listed a bunch of types here, and a little research on ebay, 8th street.com, and Mercenary.com will fill in the prices. It is clear that you are beginning a mic cabinet, and there are a lot of holes in it. The high end mics are curreently out of your price range, but I listed them as reference ponts. We all have to dream. You could fill all those holes with $1000, but you'd be filling them with cheap mics. Or you can get 2 or 3 mid priced mics that will last a while, and fill a couple of holes. Or you could get one low-high priced mic and fill one hole rather well. That's up to you. I advise against the many cheap mics routine. Get some that will last. So how to spend $1000 or so?
Your most obvious needs- Main vocal mic for the guys (maybe a tube mic), small diaphragms, better dynamic. Your AT4033 isn't really a bad workhorse. There are better, but that's not your biggest issue.
In your position, I would probably go for a pair of small diphragms, and a main vocal mic, which might be a good dynamic, or a mid-priced condenser. If you search ebay for used mics, you can do better than buying new. Say a pair of SM81's and an RE20 (which is also a great kick drum mic), or the SM81's and Studio Projects T3, a good midpriced tube mic. If you buy new, you either have to buy fewer mics, or go down a step in quality. Those SM81's are $350 apiece new. You can get a pair of Studio Projects C-4's for around $300 with all the accessories. You pay your money and make your choice. I know this is a huge post, but I hope it helps you to make an informed decision.-Richie
 
The AT4040 and the Shure KSM-27 are very flexible mics. It would be nice to have a pair of either of those.

The AKG C414 B-XLS is also a very versatile microphone but is a little expensive in relation to your budget.
 
Excellent advice already given so I just have a tangential comment.

It's funny... Tell me if I'm totally off here but I can't help but notice that most times a woman joins in with a question the 99% male population of the BBS gets unusually energetic. I think if I ever post a mic question I'm going to create an alter-ego female persona, or have my wife or daughter ask the question. Heh-heh.

Tim
 
Wow! Thanks for all the great replies!

Richard, your rundown on all the mic classifications was just great. I appreciate it! It definitely put a few grey areas into perspective for me. :)

Here's the mics I'm definitely considering...

AT4040 - what other applications is this good for again? Or is it just best for vocals?

EV RM20 - Could this indeed be my main vocal that doubles as a kick drum/bass cabinet mic? If so, isn't it a good idea to have a large diahphragm condenser around for vocals?

pair of SM-81's - These seem pretty cool. Just to confirm - These would be appropriate for live xy recording as well as overheads? How are they on say a Marshall JCM 2000tsl really loud? How about for a bass cabinet?

SM57 - it would seem these are good, affordable mics to have and I could use them for multiple applications. Is it best to buy these in pairs?

The Studio Projects T3 and the Rode I'm going to do some more research on. They look just plain tasty.

Gad! I think this whole building a mic cabinet thing could become a problem! You guys have me starting to think I may have to extend my budget to $2000... damn, my girlfriends aren't going to believe them when I tell them I'm going to pass on the next 4 SoHo shopping sprees (which we tend to do every other weekend) just so I can work on my microphone wardrobe! :eek::D

Anyhow, thanks so much to all who replied! I was worried there might have been some sort of initiation I had to endure before I would get any responses. :)

Cheers,
Samantha
 
One more thing. Do AKG C1000's suck? I had noticed they were rather affordable and you can buy them in matched pairs, but forgot to ask about them in my initial post. :)

Also... I did consider buying another AT4033 for stereo applications, but I fear they wouldn't match as I bought mine about 8 years ago. Is that indeed something I should be concerned about if I did go that route?

Thanks, :)
Samantha
 
Yo Timothy- in my defense, at least, anybody on this board knows that I will often type up War and Peace for anyone who asks reasonable questions, of either gender, or anything in between.. But- you are partly right. When I first entered my data into Guitar9's home studio registry, I noted that out of some 4000 studio owners, there were 2 women! The world is full of great women musicians, but recording seems to be the last great almost all-male holdout. I believe that is part of the problem with this board, and the industry. For this reason, I've gone out of my way to help any woman interested in recording.

Samantha- again, just my opinions-

Does AKG C1000S suck? Yes. In spades. Along with C3000B, they are 2 of the most useless paperweights ever created. Note, however, that I believe C2000B is a whole different animal, and a really useful cheap mic for vocals, acoustic, cabs, percussion, especially toms, hand drums,and as overheads. and a pretty good overhead. I see you are in the UK, and C2000B should be attractively priced. They are very versatile cheap mics.

AT4040- You can use it on almost anything, but I think it's more of a vocal mic than anything else. Note that any good large diaphragm condenser can be used for a bunch of stuff, and it can work, or not.

RE20- Yep, having other mics around is always a good thing. It wouldn't be my first choice for bass cab (or my last). A dynamic is simply a whole different beast, and some singers will sound better through a good dynamic than any condenser. They are good when you have a noisy room, or a noisy singer, you know, the kind of people who can't stand still, and smack their lips a lot. Condensers pick up every detail, and some details suck. Shure SM7 isn't as good a kick drum mic, but it is also very useful as a dynamic vocal mic.

SM81- They are excellent as overheads, and very good for X-Y, or any other kind of stereo recording. I would not select small diaphragm mics for a loud cab, or for a bass cab, personally. The diaphragms are very low in mass, which makes them sensitive as hell, and very accurate, as well as slightly noisier than large diaphragm condensers. They could be a pretty good room mic, though. In other words, you put a dynamic that can take the abuse up close and personal on that cab, and if the room is good, the SM81 backed off 6 or 8 feet. If the room sucks, it will suck. For loud cabs, Sennheiser MD421 is hard to beat, although any good cheap dynamic will do- SM57 or Sennheiser e835 are good choices. The MD421 will blow them away, IMHO. Small diaphragms are mics for getting the detail out of delicate things- acoustic, piano, violin, etc. Using them for cab mics is like using a Corvette as a land rover.

SM57- This is a good cheap mic, as they go. They are durable, and almost never totally suck. No, pairs aren't really relevent on this type of mic. I personally believe that the MD421 does everything SM57 does- better- except be really cheap.

T-3 and NTK- These are mainly vocal mics, and they can suck, or be great, depending on the singer. Vocal mics are like shoes- They either fit, or they don't. Either can also be good as a room mic, or on acoustic guitars, especially cheap ones. Rode should also be well priced in the UK. NTK is one of several go-to vocal mics for me, especially for powerful singers. Tube mics often need a certain amount of volume to make the tube kick in. Another tube mic that is well priced in Europe is AKG Solidtube. It is darker than the NTK, and can be really good for taming a bright female voice. Many people don't care for it, but after you rip the stupid foam pop filter out of it, it opens right up and becomes a very useful tube mic.-Richie
 
Samantha C. said:
Wow! Thanks for all the great replies!
You're welcome.

pair of SM-81's - These seem pretty cool. Just to confirm - These would be appropriate for live xy recording as well as overheads?

Absolutely... and acoustic instruments, and etc.

How are they on say a Marshall JCM 2000tsl really loud?
IMO, they suck for that... use something like an MD421.... which is one of my favorites.

How about for a bass cabinet?
They can sometimes work for that... but again I'd DI and use something like the MD421.

SM57 - it would seem these are good, affordable mics to have and I could use them for multiple applications. Is it best to buy these in pairs?
No, it doesn't matter... I'd keep an eye on ebay and etc and get them for about half price.
 
Richard Monroe said:
SM81- They are excellent as overheads, and very good for X-Y, or any other kind of stereo recording. I would not select small diaphragm mics for a loud cab, or for a bass cab, personally. The diaphragms are very low in mass, which makes them sensitive as hell, and very accurate, as well as slightly noisier than large diaphragm condensers.

I agree that I wouldn't use the SM81 on cabs, but not because of sensitivity. They actually aren't all that sensitive compared to other condensers.

At any rate they're overbudget.
 
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