Richard Monroe
Well-known member
Vikki, that pair will rock! Trust me.-Richie
Mics I'm Totally Spoilt For Choice.
- Thread starter Vikki
- Start date
Richar
The 451's on its way so I should have something to play with next few days, when I've gotten over the excitement of the 451 I know it will be bright I'll get the 414. I've a few good quality valve preamps and eq's to play with, I'll post a few sound samples to try and help others'
Checked out your site and listened to some of the sound clips, excellent.
Vikki(uk)
The 451's on its way so I should have something to play with next few days, when I've gotten over the excitement of the 451 I know it will be bright I'll get the 414. I've a few good quality valve preamps and eq's to play with, I'll post a few sound samples to try and help others'
Checked out your site and listened to some of the sound clips, excellent.
Vikki(uk)
Remember, use both Richard Monroe
Well-known member
Well, I fear the web site is badly dated, as we have just finished a major studio upgrade, with improvements in the instruments, the mic cabinet, and mainly the recorder. Those clips- I'm not sure whether you got the ones at:
http://www.nowhereradio.com/artists/?aid=3239/album680
or:
http://www.cdfreedom.com/cdfreedom/artist.asp
They are good for comparison. The first site are mono house mixes. No EQ, except what's dialed up on a guitar, only a little compression on a handful of vocals, no FX or reverb, except on the electric guitars. Bone dry. It should be interesting to you, because the acoustic guitars on the album, both main rhythm and lead, were done with a single AKG C414B-ULS, excepting the main rhythm on the title song "Reunion" (I don't know if that clip is up, the original vocals were pretty rough) was done with a Shure SM82 line level broadcast condenser mic. The classical guitar on "The Woodsman's Lay" was done with a pair of C-4's, but there is a problem with one of the tracks, so only one of the tracks was kept. The harp was also done with the C-414. I'm proud of the engineering on "Goody's Song", which was done DI! It just worked out that way, using a Taylor 710CE with a Fishman Prefix Plus Stereo Blender into a Joemeek twinQcs.
Anyway, the second link is an East Coast cdbaby equivalent. There are only 3 clips up there, but that's after the nice mixing engineer (homerec's own Littledog) and the nice mastering engineer (the board's own Sjoko) got done screwing around with my raw tracks. Oh boy, it's panned, has delay, and many useless frequencies have been shelved. And Littledog, a concert pianist by avocation, added some very appropriate synthetic Hammond B-3 to "Sunset Nostalgia". On "Sunset Nostalgia", and "Requiem", you'll hear a pretty honest version of a single C414 on the Taylor, into an Avalon AD2022, then to the weak point- Roland VS1824CD (Now the Roland's just a remote hard drive). I'm sorry, I'm not permitted to post up the final version of the album, and MP-3 isn't such a hot format, anyway. If you like it, buy a copy. (SPAM off)-Richie
http://www.nowhereradio.com/artists/?aid=3239/album680
or:
http://www.cdfreedom.com/cdfreedom/artist.asp
They are good for comparison. The first site are mono house mixes. No EQ, except what's dialed up on a guitar, only a little compression on a handful of vocals, no FX or reverb, except on the electric guitars. Bone dry. It should be interesting to you, because the acoustic guitars on the album, both main rhythm and lead, were done with a single AKG C414B-ULS, excepting the main rhythm on the title song "Reunion" (I don't know if that clip is up, the original vocals were pretty rough) was done with a Shure SM82 line level broadcast condenser mic. The classical guitar on "The Woodsman's Lay" was done with a pair of C-4's, but there is a problem with one of the tracks, so only one of the tracks was kept. The harp was also done with the C-414. I'm proud of the engineering on "Goody's Song", which was done DI! It just worked out that way, using a Taylor 710CE with a Fishman Prefix Plus Stereo Blender into a Joemeek twinQcs.
Anyway, the second link is an East Coast cdbaby equivalent. There are only 3 clips up there, but that's after the nice mixing engineer (homerec's own Littledog) and the nice mastering engineer (the board's own Sjoko) got done screwing around with my raw tracks. Oh boy, it's panned, has delay, and many useless frequencies have been shelved. And Littledog, a concert pianist by avocation, added some very appropriate synthetic Hammond B-3 to "Sunset Nostalgia". On "Sunset Nostalgia", and "Requiem", you'll hear a pretty honest version of a single C414 on the Taylor, into an Avalon AD2022, then to the weak point- Roland VS1824CD (Now the Roland's just a remote hard drive). I'm sorry, I'm not permitted to post up the final version of the album, and MP-3 isn't such a hot format, anyway. If you like it, buy a copy. (SPAM off)-Richie
Richard Monroe
Well-known member
As I posted above, using the 2 mics together is one popular way to mic up the guitar, but each alone may be the right mic for the job. I tried a crap load of mics on that Taylor and didn't get the sound I wanted until I switched to the 414 alone. It simply worked for that guitar. The 2 together wouldn't be stereo either, which is not just using 2 mics. But- as just 2 mics, they may work very well. Stereo recording is just one way to mic up an acoustic. Try the 451 or the 414 about 10-30cm from the 12th fret. If it's too bassy, move it away from the sound hole. If too bright, toward it. You may find you'll need to use the bass cut on the mic, or the pre.
Then, add the other mic, over your right shoulder (right handed people), pointed down at the bout, near your ear. Now- breath silently! That mic kind of picks up what *you* hear when you're playing. Blend to taste, then switch the mics. Other people like the second mic angled across the top of the guitar, pointed at the bridge (a little less pick noise). Have fun. Tell us what you hear, how you like the mics, and post some of it up. Good luck, Vikki.-Richie
P.S.- while good valve pres are a lovely thing,many of the best acoustic guitar tones I've heard have come from solid state pres. I want all the color to come from the guitar. Colored pres work very well though, to airbrush a not so hot guitar.
P.P.S.- Woo Hoo- My 3000th post!
Then, add the other mic, over your right shoulder (right handed people), pointed down at the bout, near your ear. Now- breath silently! That mic kind of picks up what *you* hear when you're playing. Blend to taste, then switch the mics. Other people like the second mic angled across the top of the guitar, pointed at the bridge (a little less pick noise). Have fun. Tell us what you hear, how you like the mics, and post some of it up. Good luck, Vikki.-Richie
P.S.- while good valve pres are a lovely thing,many of the best acoustic guitar tones I've heard have come from solid state pres. I want all the color to come from the guitar. Colored pres work very well though, to airbrush a not so hot guitar.
P.P.S.- Woo Hoo- My 3000th post!
I believe the Avalon U5 DI works well on acoustic guiar and also the Elberg mp2, that may be my next thing for me to look at.
Vikki(uk)
Vikki(uk)
alanhyatt
PMI Audio Group
Staying away from mics that are made in China is a bad suggestion, especially when there are many good mics that are assembled there. Yes, there are many bad mics designed and assembled there, but not all of them.
We design our mics here in the USA, but use China to assemble them. So we save on labor but we spec all the components, so we know what our mics will do.
As for the sound of the C4's, well have a listen to this acoustic clip done with the C4's....
C4 Sound Clip
We design our mics here in the USA, but use China to assemble them. So we save on labor but we spec all the components, so we know what our mics will do.
As for the sound of the C4's, well have a listen to this acoustic clip done with the C4's....
C4 Sound Clip
Cheap Chinese made budget mics
And here is what Alan said about the Studio Projects C4 and Behringer B5...
And here is what Alan said about the Studio Projects C4 and Behringer B5...
The Behringer B5 cost less than the Studio Projects C4... and both mics have the switches, interchangeable capsules, and etc... in fact, both mics are even made by the same Chinese company, 797 Audio.alanhyatt said:
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Alan
Sounds like the c4's were hooked up to some quite good preamps and gear, what were you using? We never see much of your gear here in the uk, i think one time you gave me a phone number for one of your uk dealers but i could never get him and he would never ring back, a guy in Shropshire uk (i think)
Vikki(uk)
Sounds like the c4's were hooked up to some quite good preamps and gear, what were you using? We never see much of your gear here in the uk, i think one time you gave me a phone number for one of your uk dealers but i could never get him and he would never ring back, a guy in Shropshire uk (i think)
Vikki(uk)
alanhyatt
PMI Audio Group
Vikki said:
Vikki,
Yes, the sound clip is very impressive. However, it is not about expensive mic amps and other gear. Its about placement, the talent, and the engineers ability to capture the moment. Inexpensive gear in the right hands can work just as much magic as expensive gear. Nothing is guaranteed to make anyone sound good no matter what the cost. It starts with the room, the conditions, the talent, the right mic, the performance, the engineer, the recorder, all the way down to the mastering. That is what makes it work... Not having expensive gear.
Our mikes are in a lot more places now. Red Submarine, Digital Village, Applestone, Press Red, RG Jones, Playback Music, and more. We are not everywhere, but then again we are not in any rush.
sdelsolray
Active member
alanhyatt said:
Nice take. Two guitars and a bass? Were they recorded simultaneously? Which instrument(s) used the C4s?
Regarding Chinese SD mics, I like the SP C4 the best of the Chinese SDs, but, quite frankly, that's not much competition. To my ears, some of the Chinese LDs are definitely beginning to compete with many of the European and American LDs. The SDs aren't there yet, as far as sound goes.
I'd certainly agree that when it comes to the price/performance ratio, high marks go to the Chinese made mics. No doubt a pair of C4s, made in America, would cost double or triple their current price (maybe $600 to $900 a pair?). Dunno, just a guess. Of course, European mics are ridiculously expensive, due in part to even higher labor costs and the recent increase in the Euro. A basic pair of Schoeps cardiods is now $2,500. Two years ago they were $1,850 or so. Microtech Gefell M290 series are $2,600 a pair. DPAs are $3,600 a pair. Even still, Scheops, Gefell and DPA sell a lot of mics.
Vicki has made a good choice with the AKG 451B and AKG 414 B ULS. That combination on acoustic guitar is an excellent one.
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alanhyatt
PMI Audio Group
sdelsolray said:
I have to disagree with you on the SD's. I think if you did the same tracks with AKG's, Schoeps, Earthworks, and some others, you would be surprised where they sit next to the C4's on these tracks.
I am not saying the C4's are a better mic, but I am saying the C4's recorded some exceptional tracks, and you would not get any significant increase in performace by using the others. So I think there are some SD's out there competing right now. The Tapers Forum have a ton of good clips on the C4's.
Again, as always, just my opinion, and I am sure any other good SD mic will do a very good job given the right conditions. I am sure the AKG's will do Vikki well as long as the recording skills are there...I own several of the 460's and 451's myself.
junplugged
Taking the slow road
Acoustic guitar style is important, as is where it's going. Solo fingerstyle needs full spectrum detail picking up nuances, strumming and mixing with band doesn't need as much bandwith.
Vikki sounds like she's talking about solo. I sure want to hear that mic, I heard about it but never heard it.
c4- was that a pair? in that high quality 14 mb wave file?
Vikki sounds like she's talking about solo. I sure want to hear that mic, I heard about it but never heard it.
c4- was that a pair? in that high quality 14 mb wave file?
Thats why it took so long to down load, i thought i was downloading an album.
Alan, you're a bit like a politician, you mention everything but what is asked! So what preamps were used with the c4s? I know there are at least two guitars on that track, so did they have a c4 each or a pair each or was the track dubbed? By the way if I'm spending around 700 uk pounds on a couple of mics I'll find the intuition to use it, you might be surprised.
No insult intended
Vikki(uk)
Alan, you're a bit like a politician, you mention everything but what is asked! So what preamps were used with the c4s? I know there are at least two guitars on that track, so did they have a c4 each or a pair each or was the track dubbed? By the way if I'm spending around 700 uk pounds on a couple of mics I'll find the intuition to use it, you might be surprised.
No insult intended
Vikki(uk)
Hi I put a request on the Prodigy home brew site asking if it was possible to get a circuit and clone the MP8(guess who answered Elberg) did i feel hot under the collar. Turns out he's quite a nice chap and said if i mailed him he would send the schematic, needless to say i didn't. He said that the MP2 would be out within the next month and thats perhaps 2 months ago, should be ready now. I did a search the other day and there's only one reference to it and thats a sketch of the case. Drop him a mail, its certainly around.
Vikki(uk)
Vikki(uk)
alanhyatt
PMI Audio Group
Vikki said:
Vikki,
This thread was about microphones, not microphone preamps. I put up a clip that was done with C4's that was one of the main issues of this thread...end of story. The point was to offer a clip with C4's. I am not being a politician, but at the same time, I see no reason to offer more than that for myown reasons.
HR has been a very hostile enviorment for me. As you can see already, one hostile is at it again on this thread. I choose to ignore that hostile. If I put up more information, more hostile comments will surely be posted, so to show people how good the C4's are, I put up the clip. That is what I did, and there is no reason for me to do more, especially when it will turn into a trash war as most of the threads I post on do.
I am sorry for that Vikki, but you need to walk in my shoes to understand why. If you can't, no big deal. As I said before, I hope your new AKG's work well for you.