micing acoustic piano in living room

astrom13

New member
I hope this inquiry is not considered too amateurish to engender a considered response. I have reviewed postings on your site and obviously many of you are quite sophisticated in the record end of music. I am not.

I am an amateur piano player. On occasion I carry my 20 year old 2-head Nakamichi 500 cassette tape deck (which has 3 mic inputs for left, right and blend) to my living room and plug my one Nakamichi mic (model 300, battery operated cardioid electret condenser)into the blend mic slot (to give me sound in both channels) and record some of my ramblings. I monitor off of headpohones. My Nakamichi mic has gone on the fritz and no parts available. I want to replace it with 1 mic costing no more than $200 (or 2 mics costing no more than $200).

As mentioned my recording is done in my living room (carpeted) on an upright console acoustic piano which is against a wall. Room is about 14 x 20 but piano is near entryway so it's more open to the left of the piano than to the right. Ceiling is about 8 feet high. Blinds are metal-no curtains. Several upholstered pieces in the room.

I want a mic that either requires no power or one that uses a AA battery-I do not want to get involved with phantom power.

I think I want a cardioid pattern (but welcome your comments). House and room are pretty quiet.

Have done some research on web. Considering Shure SM 57 (primarily because of price-I could buy 2 for stereo recording) or Shure BG4.1. I see in your postings other brands mentioned in the $150-$200 range.

Given my record setup and price limit, what mic do you recommend and why? Will there really be that much difference recording in stero as opposed to mono?
 
I recently bought The Musician's Guide To Home Recording, which described a similar arrangement. I was going to try using those ideas to record my wife on piano within the next few days.

My initial plan is to use three mics. An AT 4033 on the bass end and a little farther away from the strings than the other three. I'm guessing that will give the bass a little time to develop as well as get a little bit of the room. Then I was going to put the C1000S at the treble end and closer to the strings. That's a small condenser mic and, like you said, should pick up the transients there better than the other mics. I was hoping to take advantage of the midrange boost in the SM58 and put that mic in the middle.

I was then going to experiment with distances from the strings, pointing them in different directions, and panning the signals left and right. I'm assuming I should put the 4033 (bass) in the middle and then spread the 58 and C1000 left to right to get a stereo effect, but I'll have to try it and see how it sounds. The only processing I can do is with my ME-30 guitar pedal, which may or may not be useful.

Like I said before, I haven't tried recording piano yet so I'm hoping to have a lot of fun experimenting. If I had a 4th mic stand I'd also use my SM57 and simltaneously record on all 4-tracks on my 4-track.

Anyone have any other suggestions?
 
There are many different options for this one. By the way, don't feel like you are not as good as other people with your recordings. This site HOME recording, and while a lot of guys around really know their stuff, they are always happy to help anyone at any level.

If you do a search on the site PZM mics, you will find some information about micing pianos with them, that is what I use. If you can find them used, they are under 200$. (Oh you wanted no phantom power) sorry.
I got off track. You probably would be better off getting a small diaphram (sp?) condenser rather than two dynamic mics. Most of the consdensers have better frequency response too. I would check out the C1000s, it goes for 179 if you look around. It can be powered by an AA batery. It will pick up everything. You might want to try something by Rode as well, but I am not familiar with their mics, but lots of other people are around here.

MIKE
 
I also posted a question about the Shure BG4.1 and BG5.1 a few months ago and most people suggested I get something else.

The Rode NT-1 is VERY popular here and it's only $199. I recently bought an AKG C1000S, which is a small diaphragm mic, for $179. I have really only used it on acoustic guitar so far but I like it. Someone just posted within the last week news that Rode is coming out with the NT-3, which is supposed to be similar to the C1000S. Just do a search on "NT-3" in the Microphones section for more info. If you can go closer to $300 a lot of people will also recommend Oktavas, but ONLY if you buy from The Sound Room (http://www.oktava.com) since they do a lot of necessary quality control.

Try doing a search on "micing an upright piano" in the Recording Techniques section. Someone asked your question already and I found it while trying to answer it for myself. My wife plays piano and she's practicing songs for me to record. Since I never tried recording piano before I expect to do a lot of experimenting with mic placement and choice of mic(s) - I have the AKG, an AT 4033/SM (I like it, cost me $299), a SM57, and a SM58 - to get it to sound right.

Hope this helps.
 
Oops, sorry. Forgot about your no-phantom-power requirement. The only one I suggested that fits that is the C100S, which can be battery powered. I never tried that, though. I run mine through an ART Dual MP and use phantom power from that.

Anyway, the posting I referred to also mentions the Sennheiser 421 (dynamic, no phantom power required), but I never used that one.
 
Thanks to all of you for your ideas (maybe there'll be a few more). In thinking some more about my problem, would it make any sense to consider micing the treble portion of piano with an electret condenser (faster on transients and flatter frequency response in this area of the piano than a dynamic) and the bass portion with the Shure SM 57 (where it's peak wouldn't be very noticeable and its depth/guts in the bass might be better than the condenser mic? Any thoughts on whether this is a good idea i.e. the mixing of mics for the same instrument?

By the way, I play primarily jazz and blues.
 
Daveo,I'm wondering if you really need to use the 58.Your other mics are of a high quality and given their reputations and controled nature of the recording session,you might end up not keeping the 58's results due to the "color" it brings,being a dynamic,See what the 58 brings to the table. just my limited expierence 2 cents worth.Have fun with the session and post how it ame out. Rob
 
The best position I've found for micing an upright piano (they're tricky suckers) is from the back. Experiment with mic positions several feed from the soundboard and you can get pretty nice sounds. Micing from the top (obviously you open the lid) is trickier but if you do this make sure you're not in too close or it'll go weird on you--lots of phasing and cancellation (even with one mic).
 
Astrom13,

I got my C1000 at a nearby Sam Ash store. I wanted to buy that and a Tube MP but they were out of the preamps. The salesman said they had Dual MPs in stock so he beat the price I got from from one of the online music stores (I think it was Zzounds) and gave me that for $249. I asked if he could also cut me a break on the mic since I was spending a lot more then I planned. He took $20 off, so I got it for $179.

I always look on the web first and take cpoies of whatever I find when I go there. They've always matched better prices and usually beat prices that are the same. I've also bought a lot from them over the last year or so, so maybe that helps.

Never hurts to ask.
 
DaveO-thanks for the tip on Sam Ash. I checked the site and he wants $200 for the AKG like you said but I did find it for $179 at Bananas.com. Sam Ash's site says he'll beat any price. I wonder if he'd want to beat 179?

Current dilemma, now that price is resolved on that mic, and I found the Shure BG4.1 for $129, is which mic to get. I just posted on that question today, 3/18, with particulars thrown in about frequency response of the 2 mics, etc. Take a peek at it if you have time and let me know your thoughts. If I recall you have the AKG but haven't used it for piano yet and you were going to get the Shure but didn't. That probably means you don't have an opinion but if you've heard something from someone reliable on the comparison or regarding the weight to give the specs., give a shout.
 
I don't play pinao, my wife does, and she just came down with mono (2nd time in 5 months, too!!!). It might be a while before I really get to try it.

I planned on using two mics, with my 4033 to cover the low end, and it handles down 30 Hz. That should be sufficient for what my wife wants to play. Since I didn't buy the mics to primarily handle piano, we'll make due with what I get out of them. Since I never tried the Shure BG's I really shouldn't offer an opinion.

Go ahead and ask Sam Ash to match the price if you want to buy from them. I always show them ads I download and they match or beat it every time.
 
DaveO-thanks again. Sorry to hear about your wife's sickness-I had mono in college and it was definitely no fun. Now that I see you're going to use the AT on the bottom and the AKG on top I guess that means there's nothing wrong with using 2 different mics on the same instrument, although some prior posts even talked about buying matching mics (which I don't intend to do).

By the way, what does "senior member" mean and how do you qualify for that status?
 
Gary Hendershot-Found the AKG at my local Mars store for 179. I even have $16 worth of credits I can use there so it's really a good deal. I don't know why I didn't think of it myself. Appreciate the tip.
 
My guess is that the pros here would suggest the matched stereo pair. I live with what I've got. I don't think there's anything wrong with using two different mics and I do it all the time. But there are others who can better explain the benefits of a matched pair.
 
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