matched pair micing

dobro

dobro

Well-known member
I understand the basics about using a matched pair of mics, I think, and the reason for it, but am I right in thinking that it benefits users of 4-track technology primarily. Recording to a computer, can't you get the same stereo effect by copying tracks and panning, etc?
 
yea i dont know if this is the effect dobro was looking for but it does work in a similar way. for distorted guitar, to get a really thick sound playing a part twice does work, especially if you are looking for the CHUGA CHUGA palm muting sound.
 
The main purpose for having a matched pair of microphones is for stereo recording. Having a matched pair will give you a more consistant sound. Say a particular sound is captured by both mics, well then you would want it to have the same tone from both recording sources. you will have a more balanced, consistant mix between the two tracks.
Note: The timing it takes sounds to hit one mic to the other will vary (ie. a slight delay effect).

If you copy one track to another and pan it, you will still get a mono result. If you copy like this, try processing one of the tracks to get two different sounds. Effect processess I like to use are delay or pitch shifting. Pitch shifting will give it a chorus feel.

[This message has been edited by Fishmed (edited 01-25-2000).]
 
This was not the answer I wanted. :) If you're right, that means it's the expensive answer.

I've been using the software: copy an existing track to a new track, make the new track start a few hairs after the first track, maybe add a wee touch of this or that effect. The result is pleasantly interesting.

It's no good talking about it. I wish I had access to someone actually double micing. Then I'd know. I don't want to lay out the price of another AKG c-1000 just to try it out.

[This message has been edited by dobro (edited 01-24-2000).]
 
To keep from from having to buy another mic, couldn't you play the same part twice, maybe even moving the mic to different positions on each take, and then pan those tracks left and right for a similar effect? Plus you would have the nuances of the different performances to add even more to the sound. I have seen people in studios do this in order to fill out a guitar track.

Would this be a technique to achieve a different effect, or get results similar to stereo micing?
 
Yeah, I'm sure willing to experiment - I compare the on board reverbs I have with Cool Edit Pro, and they sound like toys compared to pro reverb. Okay, I'm not expecting what I do to sound pro, but I sure as hell don't want it to sound crap. I like the things EQ can do, but my feeling about the rest of the software effects I've tried out is: the less, the better.
 
The second mic placed farther away and slightly elevated will capture certain harmonic overtones that the close mic will miss. Much more important on acoustic guitar then electric, in my opinion.
Think of your line of mic placement as a big guitar string. The close mic picks up the open note and the 2nd mic picks up the harmonic at the 5th fret... or the 7th... or the 12th depending upon how far away you place it... Also the 2nd mic will pick up the room reverb in a live room which could be either good or bad.
 
I'd leave all that post-processed baloney
alone and use two mics intended to simulate the field of sound that would be picked up by a humanoid with audio receptors placed the way humanoids have them placed. In real time the actual signal available from point sources coincident with your ears are definitely not identical. Kristian is right in that the software doubling deal can work on some kinds of material, but for acoustic guitar and vocals recorded together, getting it right from the start is the way to go.
You can always add two more tracks that have more isolated versions of the guitar and the vocal tracks while staying with four tracks.
 
dobro,

Starting the copied track a split second later than the original will work fine. That is what I meant by delay. If you are recording a guitar stereo, then matched pair of mics is not that critical. Don't you have an NT1? Do what S8-N suggested, use the NT1 at a furter distance, that will give you a natural delay and a different tone.

Match mics are best used for drum overheads, pianos, chiors, or if you are recording multiple intruments with just two mics... say a band at a club.
 
the use of the various stereo mic techniques has several applications, but is primarily to capture a live performance. the well-known record label "Delos" has a reputation for using minimalist mic techniques and processing for their recordings. sample a few and you will see just how effective a pair of well-chosen and well-placed mics can be. as you know, i focus on small ensembles of classical instruments, so i listen to lots of that kind of stuff. i was on the phone to one of the delos engineers yesterday asking about the way he had mic'ed a flute/harp duo (the glorian duo on their cd "sounds of the seine"). in my process of A/B comparisons of my work with commercial cd's, the glorian duo recording was the sweetest, cleanest things i have run across. the delos guy put them in a nice hall, and used a single coincident pair of neumann km140s at about 5-6 feet out, and let the performers and the natural sound of the hall do the rest. i haven't even heard a james galway cd that is as well done. the delos engineer also recommended a spaced pair of omni sennheiser mkh-20s. one of the most knowledgeable people i have communicated with about this was james boyk, pianist-in-residence at caltech who has spent his life studying the physics of sound and recording - check out the articles on his website - he will only record to analog in a nice hall with coincident ribbons or condensers, with no processing, insisting that you must try as hard as possible to faithfully reproduce what a listener would actually hear. i would not say that this technique is appropriate for most kinds of rock/pop material, but it is certainly one of the most common ways of capturing classical music.
 
dobro - sorry, i kind of misread your question and rambled on about stereo mic techinques, where matched pairs are pretty important. i think maybe you were asking more about like recording something like an acoustic guitar in stereo, in which case fishmed and s8-n covered it pretty good - for that application, you probably dont want to use two of the same mic - you want to use two mics that complement each other, more like a small diaphragm condenser up close, coupled with a large diaphragm at a medium distance for ambience - then you mix the two mics to get a broad stereo image and to control the overall tonality (here, i mean that loosely to mean brightness and/or intimacy, though for classical players, tonality refers to being "in tune" or not).
 
Well, maybe the reason you misread my question was because I didn't ask a clear question. I'm not clear on the difference between the two techniques (two matched mics close up/one mic close up, one further away): what's the purpose of each technique? I've been experimenting with two mics close up, and I like the sound a lot compared to single micing.

And if these two techniques produce different sounds, have you ever tried triple micing?
 
pairs of matched mics are typically used for live stereo recording. like i often use either an ORTF or blumlein pair of my ribbon mics or ORTF with a pair of km184s at distances anywhere from 3ft out to about 10ft to record a solo or small ensemble when in a good hall. you can also use matched pairs to mic instruments and sections in the studio, either up close or medium distance. the mixed mic arrangements are mostly used in a studio environment - like the setup i described above for acoustic guitar - this arrangement is used for lots of instruments, from elec gtr cabs to brass sections to vocal groups. mixed mics are also used in live venues in conjunction with stereo pairs where the individual mics are used as "accent" mics for specific instruments or sections, while the matched stereo pair provides the overall mix balance. in the studio, mixed mics work well both as one close/one distant, and as two (or more) close mics. my current setup for harp is a km184 coupled with a royer r-121 each at about 4" from the soundboard. by carefully mixing the two mics, i can go from a very round warm sound to a very bright woody sound or anywhere in between without ever having to touch an EQ control. there is certainly nothing wrong with using 3 or more mics, but remember that as you add more mics, the more likely you will start running into phase problems. there really aren't any rules except "experiment". part of what made the beatles was the willingness of their producer and engineer(s) to try all kinds of different things, without regard to the "conventional wisdom."
 
jnorman, that last post was a short course in mic use! I apologize for firing all these questions at you, but I keep learning valuable things from your posts, and the greed's kicked in (grin).

You said: "By carefully mixing the two mics, i can go from a very round warm sound to a very bright woody sound or anywhere in between without ever having to touch an EQ control." Yeah, that's what I want to be able to do too, avoid software effects as much as possible for this project. By 'mixing the two mics', what do you mean? Positions, angles and distances (sounds like the kamasutra of recording), or mixing down?

I tried "one close/one further" a couple of ways last night, and found out I prefer the sound of two mics close up as I've been doing for the last couple of weeks, but I'll keep experimenting.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top