M/S Mic Choice Question

elbandito

potential lunch winner
I've been under the impression that matched mics were as important in M/S micing as it is in stereo micing situations. Recently, I was told that this isn't the case. To this end, I'm gonna try to record a jazz band live in M/S and see how it goes. I'll be using my SP CS5 as the S mic but I've got two choices for the Mid: an SM94 or a Rode M3. When I've tried the M3 at a distance, I wasn't overly impressed and as I only have one SM94, I've never bothered to try anything but close micing with it. Has anybody had experience with using an SM94 in an M/S situation, or at least in a distant mic situation? Also, mightn't I be better off using something with a larger diaphragm for the Mid mic?

Thanks all.
 
a lot of people end up using a ribbon for the side since it's the only figure 8 mic we have.

personally I like m/s for acoustics and use a fathead ribbon for the sides, and an SDC or LDC for the mid. I like having two different mics for two different sounds, and for acoustics I usually prefer an LDC and ribbon.

as is the answer to many recording questions...try it and see what sounds best to you.
 
I know how m/s works guys... And I already plan to try it (two days from now when I go record this jazz band). I'm looking for opinions on which of those two mics I mentioned might fare better in this configuration. The CS5 is obviously not a ribbon mic but its what I've got and to paraphrase moresound's sig, "any mic will do ya, until you find out that it sucks".

I think I'll try the sm94 as the mid and throw up the pair of m3's as room mics, in case I don't like the m/s sound.
 
I'm curious as to why you want to try this techniques for a full band.
Is it a live performance in a venue?
I probably wouldn't go for mid/side in a live situation you may well end up with more audiance than band in the recording. I would opt for a more directional technique (if you have a limited number of mics and inputs) If not go for a closer micing technique for more control at the mixing stage.
I'm not saying its wrong thats up to you.
btw i'd try the cs5 as side mic and sm94 as mid if i had to choose. Again i'd be cautious of the polar patterns.
+1 aaron on using it for acoustics i love this it works well for me for sparse arrangements.
good luck and happy recording
 
The side mic does not need to be the same as the mid mic so no problem there. However, M/S is not very effective at close range. You will get some stereo if the mics are in the near-field but I've found backing the microphone array up yields a much more useable result. This assumes a good sounding room.
 
What's the story with the back and front of a ribbon sounding slightly different?

Is that just a part of the technique, or does that only apply to badly made or cheap ribbons?
 
What's the story with the back and front of a ribbon sounding slightly different?

Is that just a part of the technique, or does that only apply to badly made or cheap ribbons?

It's the design of the particular mic. AEA has one model with a difference from one side to the other. Others sound the same. I'd prefer to use a symmetrical sounding mic of any type for M/S.
 
That's good to know Rick, Thanks.

Though it might have been a compromise of the design across the board or something.
 
I use M/S when recording my acoustic guitar using an MXL R144 (cheap ribbon) and a Shure PG81 (cheap SDC) - certainly not matched. I am surprised every time I record with what a pleasant sound I get from the M/S setup. It doesn't even require much massaging in the Eq or other processing departments. The moral of the story is that I believe the magic of M/S comes from the technique itself, not necessarily from the mics. You can get a beautiful sound with cheap, unmatched mics.

One other thing. If you are using the SP CS5 as your side mic, you could place the M3 above it and the SM94 below it recording both as your mid mic and then choose between the two as you mix.
 
One other thing. If you are using the SP CS5 as your side mic, you could place the M3 above it and the SM94 below it recording both as your mid mic and then choose between the two as you mix.

Good call I love mid/side on acoustic guitars but I've never done it with three mics. I think its time for another experiment.
thanks brother rat
 
You guys made me really curious about experimenting the M/S technique.
If I am not mistaken, I understood that such a technique isn't well suited for live recording, due to the fact that the figure of eight mic can pick a lot of room noise. Is it correct? I'd like to experiment the M/S with my small choir (til now I recorder in ORTF mode with SDC's), do you think it is too risky, noise-wise?
What about recording a small instrumental ensemble (4 players) and a female voice in "studio like" environment?
Thank you.
 
Ease up there, I googled it and thought to share a well written article.

Thanks for sharing... it's just that I asked some specific questions, none of which related to that link. It's really easy to write off most questions with a link to generalized information about a topic, except when somebody (who's already done a bunch of research) is looking for a specific answer.

Brother Rat: Thanks for the tip and the info about your use of different mics in an M/S setup! That's exactly what I was looking for. :)
 
The moral of the story is that I believe the magic of M/S comes from the technique itself, not necessarily from the mics. You can get a beautiful sound with cheap, unmatched mics. both as your mid mic and then choose between the two as you mix.
This I agree with, while i use a sdc pair for the stereo image, instead of a figure 8 ribbon, the results even with cheapo mics are quite nice.
 
This I agree with, while i use a sdc pair for the stereo image, instead of a figure 8 ribbon, the results even with cheapo mics are quite nice.

Interesting. I'd like to see a photo of how you set this up. I'm assuming you place them so that the nulls are together, the mics pointing 180 degrees away from each other. Since they are two different mics, you don't have to reverse the polarity on one of them right? Any other considerations with your method? What do you use for the mid mic?
There has been considerable experimentation with M/S method. The next thing I plan to try is using an omni pattern for the mid mic, rather than cardioid.
 
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