Lavaliers on an H4N

R

robindaly

New member
Hi - I record interviews with people using my H4N, but occasionally have to work with a bit more background noise than i'd like. So I bought a pair of RØDE VXLR 3.5mm Minijack to Male XLR Adapters and two JK® MIC-J 044 Lavalier Lapel Clip On Omni-directional Condenser Microphone (Mono 3.5mm Plug). With the Plug In Power on, the ext mic socket works with one of the mics, but there's nothing through the XLRs. The mics are rated at 5v (I think) but the only options for Phantom Power are 24v or 48v.

Can anyone suggest what's wrong? From looking on the web, the whole thing sounds straightforward enough!

Thanks.
 
I don't think the Rode adapter will pass the 48v through to the mic and you probably don't want that if it did. After a quick internet search, it looks like the mic is meant to plug into the 3.5mm Ext Mic on the H4N, but maybe that gives you only one mic input. Maybe that mic is not the right choice for your application.
 
Thanks for the response...

Chili said:
I don't think the Rode adapter will pass the 48v through to the mic and you probably don't want that if it did. After a quick internet search, it looks like the mic is meant to plug into the 3.5mm Ext Mic on the H4N, but maybe that gives you only one mic input. Maybe that mic is not the right choice for your application.
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I think you may be right, but I don't know what is wrong about it and therefore what to buy instead. One thought I have - is there any difference between the XLR adapter and a jackplug adapter, as I think I can use either on the H4N. Is there any reason to think it might give any sort of different result?
 
The 1/8" TRS to XLR adapter is likely for a 'balanced' source and destination. The lavalier mics are 'unbalanced' with one connection on the TRS plug providing 'plugin power' and will not work with an adapter like you have (hopefully didn't fry the mic(s)).

Edit.... the RODE VXLR is not balanced, but wired to adapt an unbalanced mic to a balanced XLR. However the lav mics need their own power to function and will not work with 48v phantom power.

Rode-VXLR.jpg

I can't say I've seen what you need, but doesn't mean they don't exist and I'll poke around and see what I can find. Do you need to have any kind of audio separation of the mics, left and right, or can it be a mix of the two mics on a common track in the recorder?

I have a couple cheap lav mics that have a battery holder in its cable which supplies power. I haven't tried it with my H4n, but if I can find an adapter I'll give it a go.

Edit...
Just found this which is I think what might work...... 3 5mm to 6 35mm Jack Plug Microphone Adapter Plug in Power 1 5V Battery Module | eBay
(..although in my opinion a bit pricey for what it is)
 
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Ext Mic Jack working

Chili said:
Not sure what you mean by "jackplug adaptor".

Will one lavaliere mic work in the Ext Mic jack using the 3.5mm plug? Just curious.
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Yes it does. So this tells me that a) they work and b) they need some power, as they don't work with the Plug In Power off.
 
Genius!! That looks exactly what I need. It seems likely the mics are suffering from a lack of power. I don't really need stereo separation as much as I need to lower background noise, but I'm going to need 2 of these anyway, so will preserve the stereo.

Where I was going with an earlier question above was asking if there was any mileage in simply getting a 3.5 to 6.35 adapter. I had a hunch that the H4N might supply 'Plug In Power' to both the 3.5 ext socket and the 2 x 6.35 sockets in the base. Only one way to find out I suppose... buy one :)

Thanks for being so helpful - as you can tell, I don't have much idea what I'm doing in this field!
 
Chili said:
Not sure what you mean by "jackplug adaptor".

Will one lavaliere mic work in the Ext Mic jack using the 3.5mm plug? Just curious.
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Sorry - I didn't answer your first question. As I just posted below:

I was asking if there was any mileage in simply getting a 3.5 to 6.35 adapter. I had a hunch that the H4N might supply 'Plug In Power' to both the 3.5 ext socket and the 2 x 6.35 sockets in the base.
 
I doubt the combo jack will supply power to the 1/4" plug. Usually those Nuetrik connectors only pass phantom power to the XLR part. But, as you said, doesn't hurt to try.

I'm thinking with the H4N, you're only going to get one mic working. Not sure what else to recommend. Too bad you don't have lavalier mics that don't require power.
 
Chili said:
I doubt the combo jack will supply power to the 1/4" plug. Usually those Nuetrik connectors only pass phantom power to the XLR part. But, as you said, doesn't hurt to try.

I'm thinking with the H4N, you're only going to get one mic working. Not sure what else to recommend. Too bad you don't have lavalier mics that don't require power.
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Correct the 1/4" combo does not supply power and you wouldn't want it on anything plugged in there.

The lavs might work in the 1/4" with something like the inline battery module I linked in post #5. This was available in the UK and I didn't see any in the US, but don't know where the OP is either.

It probably wouldn't be difficult to construct a small plugin power box to accommodate a couple mics, but not everyone's DIY skills are up to that.
 
Lavaleir mic into the 1/4" jack (unbalanced) works. The cheap lav I have has the battery module integral to the cable and a 3.5mm to 6.3mm adapter was provided in the kit. The recorded signal with this mic was a tad on the low side, but could be brought up in an editor. The XLR jack has more gain as balanced, but would need an adapter to accept unbalanced and would reduce the gain.
The module I linked in post #5 I believe would work.

h4n with lav.jpg
 
Sorry for slow response - been off the case!

Chili said:
I doubt the combo jack will supply power to the 1/4" plug. Usually those Nuetrik connectors only pass phantom power to the XLR part. But, as you said, doesn't hurt to try.

I'm thinking with the H4N, you're only going to get one mic working. Not sure what else to recommend. Too bad you don't have lavalier mics that don't require power.
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Well... as they were so cheap, I gave it a go, but it didn't work. So now I'm back to the battery pack suggestion which does look like it's going to work!

Thanks
 
Hey brilliant you've taken it on like this!

Sorry to be slow off the mark - I've not been able to look at this for a couple of days.

I got a pair of mono jack adapters, just to see if the 1/4 in jacks got any power. As they were so cheap I thought it was worth a try, since it would have saved messing around with batteries. But no luck. So it's back to your first suggestion. I'm ordering the inline battery packs!

Thanks for being an amazing help - lifesaver!
 
So I was just about to order the 3 5mm to 6 35mm Jack Plug Microphone Adapter Plug in Power 1 5V Battery Module | eBay that arcaxis found, when I noticed it was stereo - aaaargh. Fleeting thoughts of suicide... but then I spotted that there is in fact a mono version as well! Phew! And it's cheaper.

3 5mm Mono Jack Plug in Power Supply Battery Module for Electret Lapel Lavaliere | eBay

IF this all works, I'll put the full solution at the end of the thread for any other unfortunates stuck with this problem.
 
robindaly said:
Hey brilliant you've taken it on like this!

Sorry to be slow off the mark - I've not been able to look at this for a couple of days.

I got a pair of mono jack adapters, just to see if the 1/4 in jacks got any power. As they were so cheap I thought it was worth a try, since it would have saved messing around with batteries. But no luck. So it's back to your first suggestion. I'm ordering the inline battery packs!

Thanks for being an amazing help - lifesaver!
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I just looked at the lav's you have on Amazon. Could you confirm that the plug looks like the one below with 3 connections (TRS - tip/ring/sleeve).
One picture I saw only had two connections on the plug which makes me skeptical that it would work with a battery module.

trs.jpg
 
robindaly said:
So I was just about to order the 3 5mm to 6 35mm Jack Plug Microphone Adapter Plug in Power 1 5V Battery Module | eBay that arcaxis found, when I noticed it was stereo - aaaargh. Fleeting thoughts of suicide... but then I spotted that there is in fact a mono version as well! Phew! And it's cheaper.

3 5mm Mono Jack Plug in Power Supply Battery Module for Electret Lapel Lavaliere | eBay

IF this all works, I'll put the full solution at the end of the thread for any other unfortunates stuck with this problem.
Click to expand...

The TRS plug shown in my original link does not necessarily mean 'stereo' in the sense you may know it, it may be for other reasons such as splitting the lav's mono signal to a stereo input jack so the audio is left and right when recorded.

For what it's worth, the lav's you bought aren't particularly expensive and adding on battery modules are an added cost that could be questionable to work. Perhaps looking at buying a pair of lav's that already have the battery power module in the cable might be a better way to go.

This is the one I bought that's in the pic I posted. Not the best, but it works OK and has the battery in the cable..
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/944398-REG/polsen__olm_10_omni_directional_lav.html

We don't know where in the world you are, so I don't know if a US retailer is a good suggestion.
 
Mic jack

arcaxis said:
The TRS plug shown in my original link does not necessarily mean 'stereo' in the sense you may know it, it may be for other reasons such as splitting the lav's mono signal to a stereo input jack so the audio is left and right when recorded.

For what it's worth, the lav's you bought aren't particularly expensive and adding on battery modules are an added cost that could be questionable to work. Perhaps looking at buying a pair of lav's that already have the battery power module in the cable might be a better way to go.

This is the one I bought that's in the pic I posted. Not the best, but it works OK and has the battery in the cable..
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/944398-REG/polsen__olm_10_omni_directional_lav.html

We don't know where in the world you are, so I don't know if a US retailer is a good suggestion.
Click to expand...

I certainly didn't realise that jacks that look stereo aren't necessarily stereo! Anyway, the jacks on my mics only have one insulator strip showing and say they are mono on the packaging. So I have already ordered the mono battery packs. Hopefully these will all talk to each other nicely.

But you have a good point in that basically I bought the wrong mics in the first place, and so rather than adding more gizmos, I could have gone the route of getting the right mics!

Oh well... a bit late now.

South of London in the Surrey Hills, UK btw
 
Yeah, you will probably be OK with the ones you ordered. It will need the 3.5mm to 6.3mm adapter which I believe you now have.

Good luck and please post again if these work out OK.
 
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