Kick Drum Miking Question

Z

zackformula

New member
ok, last night I tracked drums for the first time in my basement using what I have, an AT4040 on overhead and a Shure 57 for the kick drum. Now I know the 57 isn't really a kick drum mic but its all I got for right now. I tried it in various positions (far inside the drum, outside and a few in between) It didn't get the kick drum sound that I'm looking for (which would be actually sounding like a kick drum). It sounded too hollow and bouncy.

My question is, will a good kick drum mic (D112, Audix D6) make the difference? Or will I need focus more on the drum and/or the room? The drum was recorded with the front head off.

I do plan on getting a kick drum mic but I want to know if I should be getting a decent sound from the 57. I'm going to be recording louder rock and punkish type music mainly.

thanks for any help
 
Not really. Mics only pick up what they hear. From my experience, the drum itself has WAY more to do with the sound you're getting than mic choice. Once that's dialed in, mic choice becomes more critical as far as more bottom, more click, whatever.
 
You want to EQ out those boxy sounds. Kick drums tend to make a horrible PNORK! noise when you mic them up. Scoop out the middle between 400k and 600k. Add a little 2k to 6k for the attack and add a little bottom for heavyness - not too much though. Then you want to compress it. That should give you the killer kick sound you're after.

more subtractive EQ-ing (turning down bad frequencies) than additive (adding good) really puts you on the path to pro sounding recordings.
 
Is that matter if u put the bass mic on stand ?

IS that really matter if u put the kick mic on stand or just lie inside the bottom of kick drum?
 
fakeness said:
IS that really matter if u put the kick mic on stand or just lie inside the bottom of kick drum?
Click to expand...

For recording, yes it does.The physical vibrations of the kick can translate into unwanted rumble.
 
in my newest drum tracking, i use both a sm57 and an akg d112 in the bass drum, and the 57, with the same eq and compression, has just a higher/brighter sound than the d112, which has a lower punchier sound. the two sounds sound great together so i left them both! check out my thread in the mixing forum and you can listen for yourself.

but i dont really know what im doing, thats why i put two mics in the same drum. next time, im gonna stick my oktava mk319 condenser over the snare, along with the 57 thats already there, just to experiment!
 
zackformula said:
My question is, will a good kick drum mic (D112, Audix D6) make the difference? Or will I need focus more on the drum and/or the room? The drum was recorded with the front head off.
Click to expand...
Is the sound you are getting live from the drum the one you want? In which case the 57 and some judicious eq'ing will probably give a respectable sound.

The drummer I usually work with uses a cheap JTS kick mic on padding inside the kick and a 57 outside and gets a killer sound out of one of the smallest kicks I've ever seen.
 
Sigh... the bane of any drum recording session... poorly tuned drums. Why is it we as a species (drummers that is) seem to be the musicians least concerned about tone? Guitar players go gaga over amps and pedals. Bass players go nuts over neck through basses and active electronics. Drums just hit stuff and it is usually "good enough". You have to tune the drums. Really. There is nothing more important to recording a good sounding drum kit.... than a good sounding drum kit. You can do a lot with very little in the mic department if the drums sound good to begin with. Add a nice sounding room and you are 65% there. The rest is mic positioning and the last thing to worry about is mics, pres, etc. If you don't take care of the bread and butter pieces, the rest won't matter.... (sort of the name of the game in recording period) Like putting truffle oil on Taco Bell. What's the point?
 
I can't argue with all the sentiments above, but that being said, there are kick mics that will probably get you what you are looking for a whole lot easier than a 57 will, without having to EQ the hell out of it.

So, from that perspective, it wouldn't be a bad idea to get one.
 
Getting an Audix D6 for kick has vastly improved my recordings, just by itself. IMO, a good kick mic is an excellent bang for your recording buck.
 
kick drum mic is definitely the way to go, although some people got good results even with SM57. yes. but it really depend what kind of sound you're after.
but what REALLY counts is the quality of a drum. if the raw sound doesn't do it for you, then no magic mic will do it.
i use Beyerdynamic OPUS 99 for kicks. Great mic by the way. Never tried Audix though, but IMHO beats AKG D112. It has more natural response than AKG, which sounds to plastic to me. I usualy try to avoid that plastik K sound from the batter and AKG just seems to enhance that.
once i miked an awfully tuned kick drum played by awfully uneven drummer. even with OPUS 99 i couldn't get a usable sound from that poor tuning and playing.
another time i took the time and tune the kick of my client and to my relief he played very precisely and had a good punch. the result was great. a great kick sound without any eq or comp. i found that the best sound i get is when the drum is not muffled too much and has a hole in front head on the side. i then place the mic inside the kick (10-15 cm inside). i position the mic a bit to the side so it doesn't face directly to the batter (i try to avoid the K, remember?) and a bit upwards so it faces the place where the batter hits the head. well, about an inch bellow.

well, that's how i do it, and it actually works for any kind of sound i want. i could get a metal, jazz, d'n'b, punk kick from the same drum, miked the same way. i'll probably stick to this formula.

peace.
 
Actually, some pretty decent kick tracks have been captured with an SM-57, so I'd be looking at the drum itself. Are all the drums tuned? If not, tune them. Does the kick drum have two solid heads, or does the front head have a hole in it, or is the front head removed? Each of these versions sounds different, and requires a different mic'ing approach. Is the kick drum dampened (with a blanket or other dampening device) at all? What is the kick drum pedal beater made of... felt, wood or plastic? Are you using a beater disk (a round metal disk attached to the beater head, where the beater hits the head) to add extra "click"? I'd consider and rectify all of these things before moving on to another mic... or if you just can't wait and decide to buy a D-112 or whatever, consider and rectify these things anyway. ;)

Good luck and happy recording!
 
I would put the 4040 in front of the kick and the 57 on the snare for now. Yes some people have made decent recordings with a 57 on the kick, but they also ran it through an api pre with a neve eq and a hundred thousand dollars of other gear. I will actually admit it in public I think the 57 sucks! YOU HEARD ME FIRE AWAY! lol. The only thing I like a 57 on is the snare. I say get yourself a good kick mic. The 57 doesn't actually pick up the lower frequencies that a kick drum produces. And if the mic isn't picking it up then all the EQing in the world won't help. The greatest kick drum mics are all pretty much under $200 "with the exception of the RE-20 and U67" (my fav setup for kick is a sennhieser E602 in the sound hole, and an AKG D112 inside the drum a few inches from the beater, with the E602 going through a DBX 120X which is about a $600 total signal chain) Put the outside head back on and use the 4040 about a foot in front of the kick as a sorta room mic until you can save $200 for a good kick mic (D112, Beta52, E602, etc.) Hope this helps.
 
protein said:
You want to EQ out those boxy sounds. Kick drums tend to make a horrible PNORK! noise when you mic them up. Scoop out the middle between 400k and 600k. Add a little 2k to 6k for the attack and add a little bottom for heavyness - not too much though. Then you want to compress it. That should give you the killer kick sound you're after.

more subtractive EQ-ing (turning down bad frequencies) than additive (adding good) really puts you on the path to pro sounding recordings.
Click to expand...

Protein pretty much nailed it. Just cut the mids on your eq as much as you can. I hate it when Rick Rubin or someone puts a 57 in a kick. Get a D112, and forget about it. Put that 57 on your snare. Buy another AT4040, or get a matched pair of SDCs, and your in business!
 
A Shure Beta 52 all by itself will give you a great sound with no EQ, provided that the drum is tuned well. That's really the key, isn't it? Whatever you record has to sound good before you put a mic on it. If it's the right mic, it shouldn't need anything else!

I have had good results with a Superlux FK-2 (can hear the groans already) mixed with a teenie bit of sub-kick speaker mic for low end boom. I'll post this clip again, but know that this is a rough track (and it's hard to record all the parts yourself and get it together) and that I won't post the finished tracks until they are just the way I want them. What am getting now sounds even better.

This has absolutely no EQ at all... on anything.



Don't rail too much on the playing or songwriting. I only record for fun.

Oh, and I forgot that there's really no muting on the kick except for a small shop towel, and there is a one gallon paint can (full) in the middle of the shell on a towel which is not touching the head. Felt beaters on clear remo ambassador heads.
 
.....yeah, but how's the room?

well-tuned drums in a crappy sounding room with nastily reflective walls and low ceilings will give a crappy sounding recording. "hollow" and "boxy" are two of the words that immediately come to mind there.

so start with the drums and make sure the heads are new or at least in good shape, and that they're tuned well/properly. that's paramount no matter where you record (or gig).

then look at the room. you said "basement". is the kick drum on the floor? and is the floor concrete? if so, you're gonna lose a LOT of the tone of your drums to that--especially the kick drum. much like amps, get the drums off the floor. build a riser or something. 4 inches makes a world of difference.

how are the walls? are they brick, cinder block or concrete (as in "unfinished basement)? if so, they'll kill any quality you can hope to get out of drum tracks. clap your hands (loudly) in the room and listen for the resonance. does it sound kinda like a basketball being bounced? or kinda metallic?

hang comforters, put up bookcases, hang foam, do *something* to cut down on the nasty, hollow, ringy resonance the walls will impart. lots of people stand behind the owens corning 703 as well. point being, nothing trashes a drum recording like a nasty room. the same goes for a room with plain sheetrock/drywall.

once those things are taken care of and the drums sound good in the room, THEN invest in a kick mic. it's my experience that an SM57 works well as a "complimentary" mic, but not so much as a primary mic. which one to get? everyone has their favorite. i've got an EV RE38 that does quite nicely for my use--it's similar to an RE20.....but YMMV--find one you like.


but seriously.....work on the drums and room first. then worry about the mic.


cheers,
wade
 
What I have been doing lately and getting a Good Bass Drum sound is I Take my Mic (I don"t even know wht type it is but I think it is a Cheapo AT(Audio Technica) and I wrap it in a Pillow and Put the Pillow up against the Bass Skin with the Front of the Mic Pointing twards the Skin and then i take a SDC (Home made Condenser) and Put it just inside the Hole of the Bass Drum and Record this way and I have been getting a Very good Bass Drum sound while useing Really Cheapo mics with a Crappy old Bass Drum skin.....


It sucks being Poor.....

Cheers
 
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