How does this idea sound?

B

BJW

New member
Well, I'm accumulating stuff and not using it, so I figure I'm gonna do some selling and some buying.

Here's what I've got for recording.
Mikes:
1. Superlux CM-H8a LD Condensor w/shockmount
2. sm57.

Board/Pre's:
1. Behringer mx2004a board (20 channel board)
2. M-Audio DMP3 (which isn't here yet - stupid guitar center)

Sound Card: M-Audio Delta44

Software: Cubase SX 2.0, plus some VSTi plugs

Instruments:
1. Takamine FD-360sc acoustic/electric guitar
2. Epiphone Les Paul Std.
3. Line6 Spider 1x12
4. A Yamaha bass that a friend traded me for an old acoustic guitar
5. Randall Bass Amp - half-stack with a 2-10in. speaker cab. (came with the bass deal)
6. Remo Djembe
7. M-Audio Radium 61 midi controller

Here's what I'm thinking:
1. Sell the bass and the bass amp. I never play the bass much at all - I mainly use the radium and do MIDI bass stuff. I used to play piano, so it's way easier for me to get bass down that way.
2. Sell the berry mixer and buy a much smaller berry ub802 series mixer. I hear the UB-series pre's are way better than the mx-series stuff, plus I'd have 2 channels from the berry mixer (which I wouldn't use much at all) and 2 channels from the DMP3. I've only got 4 inputs total.
3. Sell the superlux mike with the shockmount.

So if I sell those things, I think I can get about 125 or so for the mixer, maybe 450 or 500 for the bass and the bass amp and 50 or so for the mike. Hopefully ebay could get me about $625 to work with. I've thought about selling the electric guitar (my roommate has an SRV custom strat) and the amp, since I use mostly amplitube, but my roommate is probably gonna move out in a year, and sometimes you just need a real amp.

Basically I just want to get a good mike cabinet, since all I'd be left with is the 57. I mostly want to record vocals, acoustic guitar, djembe, and my line6 spider. Here's what I'm thinking:
Vocals - LD Condensor: Studio Projects C1 - $200
Acoustic - matched pair sd condensors: MXL 603s's $200 on ebay
Djembe/multi-purpose: Studio Projects B1 - $100

Plus I'd need that berry ub802 mixer - $60

Comes to a total of $560 - leaves me a bit left over to finish paying for the DMP3 that I charged plus a mike stand or two and some cords.

Granted I need to try stuff out on my voice/my guitar, but nobody here in OK carries the studio projects mikes, and everything I hear/read points me in their direction. What would you guys do with @625 to build up a decent mike cabinet for the uses I've described? Or would you sell the epi les paul (cause it's kind of muddy anyway) and the line6 give yourself about $1000 to work with?

-Brian

oh, and sorry I'm a bit long winded today
 
Well, Guitar Center just called, the DMP3 is in!!

Time to see if this thing is really that much better than my berry pre's. I'm planning on doing some comparisons if anybody is interested.

-Brian
 
Mostly, it all makes sense. The only thing I would say is a Djembe needs to be recorded with 2 mics, if you have any idea how to play it. The B-1 or the C-1 would be OK on the skin, but you need a kick mic on the throat. Remember to reverse the phase on one channel. AT Pro25, Audix D-6, AKG D112, Shure Beta 52, any of them will work just fine. I doubt the DMP-3 will disappoint after Behringer MX series pres. I would also consider CAD M179 as an alternative to the C-1, just for the multi-pattern capability.-Richie
 
Thanks for the response, Richard.

Yeah, actually I have miked the djembe before with my ld condenser on the rim and my 57 on the bottom. Didn't sound too bad I guess. (And no, by the way, I don't really know how to play it. . .. lol). I'm learning, but I always thought they sounded awesome with mellow acoustic stuff. There's only one way to learn how to play it, and that's play it.

I've also miked my acoustic this way: LD condenser up by the 2nd or 3rd fret and sm57 down closer to the sound hole, or something close to that. I also run it direct in. . .the takamine I've got has some pretty good pickups in it, but the mikes just give it more presence. I'd also like 2 ld condensors (a.k.a. the sp b1 and c1 or something analogous) for vocals. One in front of me and another to pick up ambient sounds - I've never tried this technique, but I'm curious.

I'm going to compare the berry mx pre's and the dmp3 soon, but I think I know what the outcome will be already.

Keep the ideas coming.

-Brian
 
I'm thinking I might just go for a Studio Projects B1 and C1 and use those for miking my acoustic. I wonder what the difference in quality would be between those and a pair of SD condensers (MXL 603s's). I could use the extra cash. I figured I'd put the B1 in front of the sound hole and the C1 up around the 2nd fret, or vice-versa. How much better will the 603s's be on my acoustic? I'm guessing it all depends on my ears, but somehow I think the Studio Projects mikes will be enough.

I know I'll be buying these studio project mikes blind, but I figure if they don't work to my liking for my voice, then I'll just sell them on ebay. I'll probably get about what I'll pay for them. Right now they're going for 100 for the B1 and a boom stand and 200 for the C1 and a boom stand. I'm going to see if the seller will cut me a deal for both at once with boom stands. If I end up re-selling them, I'll at least get 2 boom stands out of the deal.

My plan is to get the C1, take it to guitar center and try it side-by-side with a Rode NT1a, a Oktava 319 (or rather, all the Oktava 319's they've got, haha), and whatever else they have in stock (hopefully the CAD M179, but I'm not sure if they carry it). Maybe they'll let me bring my DMP3 in there and hook them up to it. I'll just take the one I like the best on my voice. We'll see.

Any opinions?

-Brian
 
Almost 100 views and only 1 response besides me? Hmmm, maybe I'll pose the question in a different way:

Say you had $500 to spend on mikes (and already had an sm57), what would you buy? - primarily to mike male vocals and acoustic guitar - no drums except for a djembe.

-Brian
 
maybe being bored at work has caused just a wee little bit (or a lot) of impatience
 
BJW said:
maybe being bored at work has caused just a wee little bit (or a lot) of impatience
Click to expand...

LOL, I'm having one of those surf the web and hang out at boards days (weeks) at work too. I got my monitor where no one can see it. HAHAHA.

To answer your questions.

1. Behringer MX to UB: Good idea. I've got a little 8ch MX and the UB2222FX-PRO. The sound difference isn't night and day, but it's there. The MX also tends to be much noisier with the gain turned up. I've AB'd the UB pre's with the focusrites in my Mbox and they sound almost identical.

2. Don't have any direct experience on the specific mics, but the types of mics are about right. Try this link http://www.mojopie.com/micproj.html

3. You are right, you will always need an gtr amp at some point or another, wouldn't get rid of that just yet. I would say same for the bass but that's your call. You can prolly get rid of the amp, DI Bass is better than DI guitar in my opinion.

I didn't see it in your list, but what are you monitoring through? A good pair of speakers and some headphones are overlooked a lot of times. Expensive fricking hobby isn't it? :D
 
I dunno, you're unhappy with a lot of your gear right now. I think I might look to step up to the tried and true. How about selling the 57 along with the other stuff, and buying a used MD421 and a KSM32? Those are two mics with lots of uses and excellent reputations.

You can use the 421 for guitar amp, kick (or djembe bottom), some voices, and soundhole although that's a little weird for me. The 32 for voice, guitar, all kinds of acoustic instruments, drum overhead. Actually I like to use a dynamic & condenser at the same time on voice, and blend a little dynamic low end in. Seems to help with thin voices while retaining the definition of the condenser.
 
reshp1 said:
I didn't see it in your list, but what are you monitoring through? A good pair of speakers and some headphones are overlooked a lot of times. Expensive fricking hobby isn't it? :D
Click to expand...

Sorry, I did forget to mention that. I use Event SP5's. I got them pretty cheap used off ebay a while back (like around $170), and the difference between those and what I had been using (my computer speaker or some AKG headphones) is amazing. I'm still listening to them with different kinds of music just to train my ears and know what I need to shoot for. Its funny - singers on CDs actually sound like real people now instead of the seemingly perfect vocal you hear on any other speaker.
 
reshp1 said:
2. Don't have any direct experience on the specific mics, but the types of mics are about right. Try this link http://www.mojopie.com/micproj.html
Click to expand...

Yeah, I've seen that link. Actually, I used that as a basis for my mike choices. I think he talks about the B1, C1, and 603s's in there as great starters. I'm starting to wonder if I'm ever gonna use my 57 again. Maybe I could sell that? Nah, I'm sure i should probably keep it around. Besides, what would I get for it? 50 bucks? - not worth it.
 
mshilarious said:
I dunno, you're unhappy with a lot of your gear right now. I think I might look to step up to the tried and true. How about selling the 57 along with the other stuff, and buying a used MD421 and a KSM32? Those are two mics with lots of uses and excellent reputations.

You can use the 421 for guitar amp, kick (or djembe bottom), some voices, and soundhole although that's a little weird for me. The 32 for voice, guitar, all kinds of acoustic instruments, drum overhead. Actually I like to use a dynamic & condenser at the same time on voice, and blend a little dynamic low end in. Seems to help with thin voices while retaining the definition of the condenser.
Click to expand...

I kinda agree with you here. It's easy to be swept away by all the raving reviews of the studio projects stuff, but I shouldn't forget the tried and true models that have proven their worth time and time again. Maybe guitar center will carry those as well and I can audition them.

-Brian
 
Personally, for the $500 in mics, I'd buy a pair of Studio Projects C-4's, and an AKG C2000B. I'd use the C-4's for acoustic, the C2000B on vox, and I'd put one C-4 on the skin of the Djembe, and the C2000B on the throat. I think for Djembe, pads are likely to be useful.-Richie
 
Richard Monroe said:
Personally, for the $500 in mics, I'd buy a pair of Studio Projects C-4's, and an AKG C2000B. I'd use the C-4's for acoustic, the C2000B on vox, and I'd put one C-4 on the skin of the Djembe, and the C2000B on the throat. I think for Djembe, pads are likely to be useful.-Richie
Click to expand...

You'd prefer the C4's over, say, the MXL 603s's or the Oktava 012's?

Just curious.

I've also thought of the combo of 1 good LD condenser and 1 pair of SD condensers.

-Brian
 
Yes, I would prefer the C-4's to the Oktavas or the 603's, mostly for the versatility factor. The Oktavas are really excellent overheads, and can sound good on a not-so-expensive guitar by adding a little color. The 603's are brighter, and sound good on boomy dreadnoughts. The C-4's are more honest, which means sometimes less forgiving, but also more versatile. They are pretty good as a remote stereo pair. I did a couple of 88 piece orchestras and a Reggae band with them, and they rocked. SP also has very good customer service, and they have bent over backwards to help me with a couple of problems.
The C2000B I recommend for a couple of reasons. It's a very underated mic, which suffers from being in the shadow of its sibling C3000B, which costs $120 or so more and in my opinion, pretty much sucks. Everybody figured for only $200, C2000B must suck more. Not. Why good for you? It's a more colored mic than the C-4's, and shines on things you want to air brush a little. Good on cheap guitars, good on many vocalists, both men and women. It's a little noisy, a factor of its small diaphragm, but not bad enough to be a problem. Mainly, it rocks on toms and Djembe, doumbek, zarb, congas, bongo, timbale, etc. The AKG engineers recommend it over the 414 on toms and Djembe.
I have a fair amount of experience with killer Djembe. The drummer on my album, "Reunion", known as Rimshot on this BBS, is the lead Djembe player of a West African Drum ensemble. He has a series of past and present teachers whose names start with Bara and Baba, and who read like a Who's Who of West African drum masters in North America. His hands are like shoe soles.
You've heard of the "talking" drums that can be heard at 12 miles on a clear day? That monster he plays is the real deal. He's been known to blow the headphones off of Audio engineers who didn't take him seriously when he told them to lower the input gain. I didn't make that mistake, fortunately. I locked him up in one heavily treated vocal booth, and engaged every pad in sight. Taming that Djembe was one of my most satisfying achievements in tracking "Reunion". In the live room, I could feel the slap bouncing around the room. I had a headache for an hour afterwards. On the raw tracks, it sounds like he's playing 2 drums. The head, sharp like a snare with the snares muted, the throat, like a kick drum.
No kidding, when he does it live with another drummer, they mic the kit, and move Jeff away from the kit, so he won't bleed into the mics too much. Without mics, that Djembe will blow most full kits with big toms and heavy sticks, off the stage.-Richie
 
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