help with mic

rp-mc

New member
yo i gotta shure pg58 mic and my beats i got em sounding pro with eq and shit but i cant get my vocals loud enough and when i do with a plugn like limiter or something its all disorted is there any mic i can get that makes it really loud and smooth quality but does not clip please help out people


o i also make rap music
 
rp-mc said:
yo i gotta shure pg58 mic and my beats i got em sounding pro with eq and shit but i cant get my vocals loud enough and when i do with a plugn like limiter or something its all disorted is there any mic i can get that makes it really loud and smooth quality but does not clip please help out people


o i also make rap music

What preamp are you using for the microphone? The PG series of mics are definitely not "pro" quality, but should be at least usable. Also, you might want to get a keyboard with punctuation keys.
 
rp-mc said:
umm i got it through a behringer vmx mixer and the mixer is hooked 2 line in

Well, from what I can find on the net, the vmx look like DJ mixers and aren't really designed for recording. Can you sell that and get an Art Tube MP or Studio Projects VTB-1 preamp? Those will give you more volume for your mic.
 
rp-mc said:
hmm i will just get a preamp cuz i use the dj mixer for sampling on my turntable

o and i was checking out this mic andd this preamp r they anygood?

mic: http://www.zzounds.com/a--2676837/item--AUTAT2020



amp: http://www.zzounds.com/a--2676837/item--ARTPHANII

The AT2020 mic is certainly better than what you're using now and would probably be a good investment.

The ART you posted is just a phantom power unit, and does not contain a preamp. I was referring to something like these:

http://www.zzounds.com/a--2676837/item--STUVTB1
http://www.zzounds.com/a--2676837/item--ARTTMPPS
 
ok ok well this guy i knwo says that a preamp wont help me get my volume louder and he says i sould get a tascam ia this true? :confused: :confused: :confused:
 
Tascam is a brand, not an item.

And tell your friend he is wrong.

You will get more clean volume from a preamp than what you are currently using.

Pete
 
Help With Mic (Reply)

How are you? I read your post about getting good vocals with your mics, and I have used PG58s in the past...and your appraisal of that mic is dead on...it sucks.

I am a performing and recording musician, and I have been the lead singer of more rock bands than I can count...most recently I've been "Bono" in the Phoenix based U2 tribute band, Zoo Station. For that band, I really had to experiment with a lot of mics and a lot of sounds to try and emulate Bono's tone, and that's not an easy task when you're talking about a guy who has tried everything there is to be tried in the realm of vocal processing...and he has access to any mic and signal processing rig in the world. It was a tough task, but it allowed me to dial in a precise sound not only for the U2 stuff...but for my original records as well.

All that preamble...now how about some advice. I have found that, dollar for dollar, there is NO BETTER dymanic vocal mic on the planet than the EV N/D767a. I have tried everything from the good 'ol Shure SM58 to the Beta 58 and the Beta87 to the Neumann K105 series (a freaking $700 handheld mic...does it sound good...absolutely...does it sound $550 better than a Shure Beta 58...NO FREAKING WAY...and the EV actually blows it away). I have used Sennheisers, AKGs, and Audio Technicas as well. Time and time again, I kept coming back to that EV N/D767a.

I don't know how to describe it exactly...it just does EVERYTHING better than the other guys. I am NOT knocking Shure, Sennheiser, Neumann, or AKG. There are things that I love about all these mics...but if I sat down and made a pros and cons list about all the different mics that I have used and loved, all of them would have a few cons on the list...all of them except the EV. There is just nothing that the mic doesn't do PERFECTLY.

The bass response is loud and tight without being boomy at all...the mid range is throaty and full without any loss of definition at all...the highs are glassy and crytalline without any hint of shrill or distortion. The other thing about this mic that blows me away is the fact that you get absolutely no mic handling noise whatsoever. As a flashy lead vocalist, I wear a ton of rings onstage. With every other dynamic handheld I have ever used, I would get some clanging and bumping noises through the mic when my rings would scrape or hit the mic casing. I DO NOT get this with the EV. One other beautiful feature of the mic is that you don't have to kiss the damn thing to get beautiful nuance in your vocals. Whether your are singing at what would be considered almost a whipser or you are screaming at the top of your lungs in a thrash metal band, the mic will translate EVERY detail of your performance with no distortion or blurring at all.

Honestly, I have RARELY ever had to even mess with my vocal EQ when I use this mic. It sound so good that I can just plug in and start singing.

When I recorded my last record, I used a Neumann U87 for most of the vocals. If you are familiar at all with studio-grade tube condenser mics, then you know that the Newumann U87 is THE standard by which all other condeners are measured...and they cost about $3500!!!!!! Just for the hell of it , I recorded one song on the album...a slow acoustic number that had little else in the way of instrumentation going on so you could hear EVERY subtle nuance of the vocal performance, using an EV N/D767a instead of the Neumann. No joke...I get more compliments on that one vocal than I got on all the other tracks that were done with the Neumann. Again, I am not trashing the Neumann. It's a freaking killer mic, but just the fact that a $139 hand-held live performance dynamic mic could produce such an amazing result that it sounded BETTER to most people's ears than a $3500 industry standard tube condenser...well, you get the idea.

The nice thing about the EV N/D767a is that, although certainly not the cheapest hand-held dynamic out there, it certainly isn't the most expensive one either. Retail on one of these beauties is about $139, but they can be had for as little as $100 or so if you look around enough.

I serioulsy never understood just how much difference a microphone could make until I started exploring...it is easily one of the MOST essential pieces of gear you will EVER buy.

If you are looking for some other great mics (not as good as the EV N/D767a in my opinion...and the opinion of a ton of other people as well if you read the reviews of this particular mic on the web), here's a list of places to start. All of the mics I will list here are between $100-$200 (or thereabout) and can be purchased almost anywhere...no custom models or hard to find Belgian mics or anything like that!!!!

1. EV N/D967a - This mic actually has a little more gain before feedback than even the N/D767a...and it has a throatier mid-range to boot...however, you literally have to EAT this microphone. It sounds AMAZING, but you have to have the thing right on your lips at all times or your sound just literally disappears...plus, it's about $70 MORE than the N/D767a...and frankly even though it sounds just a tad better, the difference in sonic quality is much too small to compensate for the fact that you can't get more than a half-inch away from the windscreen before your voice disappears completely from your mix!!

2. Sennheiser e935 - If EV went out of business and every N/D767a suddenly disappeared from the face of the planet, this is the mic I would go to. Almost as good as the EV N/D767a, but the tone is just SLIGHTLY muddier, as all Sennheisers are. Some people actually enjoy a bit of a darker and less definied tone from their mics, and if you are one of these people, you might actually PREFER this to the EV N/D767a. However, this mic does suffer a bit in the nuance department. Louder vocal passages are represented just fine...but if you are trying to get a little breathy and intimate with your vocal passage, this mic will struggle a bit. In addition, this mic retails for well over the $200 limit I stated above...but with a little research and some wheeling and dealing with the folks at Guitar Center, you can walk out the door with this baby for under $200. Please note that Sennheiser also makes a model called the e835. Although cosmetically identical to the e935, its response curve is MUCH different. The signal to noise ratio is nowhere near as good as on the e935, the gain before feedback staging is far inferior, and it required a good deal of mid and high range EQing because it is a VERY bassy mic...but it only costs about $99 retail, and with a little EQ and creative positioning to prevent feedback, it is a GREAT mic...better than a standard Shure SM58 in my opinion.

3. Audix OM5 - Some singers consider this to be one of the best dynamic live performance vocal mics ever designed...and judging by how many people you see singing into these things on MTV and VH1, the people who make this claim are a pretty distinguished bunch. The Audix is an incredible mic, but unlike the EV N/D767a, you get a lot more handling noise, and the mic just lacks the "body" that you get from the EVs and the Sennheisers. With the right EQ, and proper positioning so you can get some serious volume without feedback, this mic will serve you quite well...but head to head with no preamp, no EQ, and a ton of rings on the vocalist's hand :-)-)), the EV wins hands down. Again, this is a great mic...just not as good as the EV.

4. Shure Beta 58 - This microphone is THE microphone...I mean, everyone has used a Shure SM58 at some point in their careers. Bono uses a Shure SM58 to record his STUDIO vocals for crying out loud (and he uses the standard 58, not the Beta). This mic is a workhorse, and you could drop it from a ten story building and probably still gig with it the same night. I am reviewing the Beta 58 rather than the standard 58 because, for $30 more than the standard SM58, the Beta gives you CONSIDERABLEY more headroom and a higher gain before feedback rating than the standard. In my opinion, its kind of crazy to buy a standard 58 when the Betas aren't all that much more cash. The only downside to the Beta that I have ever encountered was the fact that it does get a little shrill if you are going into the stratosphere on your vocals (again, being the lead singer of a U2 trubute band, I am using a LOT of falsetto, and the Beta 58 can get a little harsh up in those ranges). Although I am obviously a HUGE advocate of the EV N/D767a, I have to admit that my wireless microphone is actually a Shure Beta 58 PGX. The ONLY reason I went with this unit rather than the wireless EV N/D767a was for authenticity with the U2 band...Bono uses a wireless Beta 58 on stage, so I do too. If and when the U2 tribute band breaks up, I will be trading in my Beta 58 wireless for the EV. Having said all that, my Shure Beta 58 has NEVER let me down, and there is a definite reason why it is the number one hand-held dynamic performance mic on the planet...just because not enough people have heard of the EV N/D767a!!!!!!!!!!!! :-) Just kidding...it really is a great mic even though I prefer the EV.

5. Shure Beta 87 - This mic is probably the best hand-held dynamic performance mic that Shure produces. It too is much closer to the $250 threshold, which makes the EV look even better since the EV sounds better than the Shure at a considerably lower price, but a lot of folks like the fact that the Shure Beta 87 can handle much more than just vocal duties. It has a much better pressure threshold than any of the other mics on this list (including the EV that I love so much), so it can be used for instrument...even drum...micing with exceptional results. It still suffers from a bit of the high end shrill that you get with Shure mics, and the bottom end on all Shure mics tends to get a little boomy rather than tightening up the way it should, but nonetheless...they build a hell of a mic or they wouldn't be where they are in the world of microphone production.

One other mic worth mentioning, but I can't put it in the list simply because of the price, is the Neumann K105. This mic is IN-FREAKING-CREDIBLE. It sounds great, it looks great, and it has a very unique triple stage breath filter that COMPLETELY eliminates any pops or sibilance...I can't imagine EVER needing a de-esser with this mic. This is one feature that this mic has OVER the EV...it really is pretty amazing how this mic just will not pop or spread your "s" sound like butter through the PA speakers. But, all being even, the EV still sounds better...and the Neumann retails for $659!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It just isn't worth that much money when compared to the rest of the playing field. Most of the people you see using this mic are professionals such as Aretha Franklin, Christina Aguilera, and folks like that...people who you know damn well aren't even paying for their own equipment. Companies like Shure, EV, Neumann, and Sennheiser fall all over themselves to give these people free gear so everyone in the world can see them using it and get suckered into going into their local music shop and plunking down full price to get something that these pro-artists get for nothing (and they are the ones that can actually AFFORD to pay for all this stuff...the world is ass backwards sometimes).

Anyway, I know this post is long, but hopefully it will give some newcomers the information needed to get started on recording GREAT sounding vocals. You just can't do it with a $49 mic. You need to spend some cash and get a good microphone...but fortunately for us singers, good mics can be had for under $200!!! And, if treated right they will last a lifetime.

Don't get fooled into thinking that the most amazing signal chain in the world will make up for a lousy mic...it won't. Make sure you've got a good dynamic (or condenser if you are looking at high-end home recording) at the head of that chain, and your sound will change dramatically.

A real quick word about mic preamps, and then I will finally shut up and get out of here. I have used some amazing mic preamps in my day (some of my best friends are professional studio engineers), and I've got to tell you that, for the money, I cannot find a mic preamp that I like much better than the Behringer UltraGain T1953. This is a freaking $99 mic preamp, and I know that some of you are wondering how the hell I could be recommending such a low price mic pre, but I am dead serious when I tell you that it rivals the sound of some mic preamps I've heard that cost 10 times as much. It is simple, intuitive, it has a REAL 12AX7 tube circuit in the gain stage...and it just kicks ass. It does actually sound like trash if you have a low end mic...but if you use it with ANY of the mics that I have recommended above, you will be blown away by the way this thing sound.

Behringer has a reputation of putting some beautiful mic preamps inside their UB and Xenyx series mixers, so this is a company that knows a thing or two about mic preamps...but how they can offer a unit this good for $100, I have no idea. I have had mine for a while now, and combined with a BBE Sonic Maximizer 882i, (and my EV N/D767a, of course), I can dial in a vocal sound, record it with Sonar, Cubase, Pro Tools, or my Boss BR-1600 DAW, and challenge you to find a million dollar studio vocal that sounds much better. And this is not a pat on my own back...its a pat on the back of the people that manufacture the gear that I use. I am a GOOD engineer, but using the EV mics and the Behringer mic pre make me sound like a GREAT engineer.

Anyway, I really will shut up now. Again, I know this is a long post, but if someone would have given me all of this information when I was first starting out with home recording and beating my head against a wall because no matter what I did I couldn't get a good vocal sound to save my life...well, I would have been eternally grateful. I learned how to record instruments pretty quickly, and I've always had a knack for it...but it took me years to hone my skills at recording killer vocals. If you are just starting out, hang in there. With time and experience, you will begin to get vocal sounds that make the hairs on the back of your neck stand up...and from there it just gets better and better. And, if you are a seasoned vet when it comes to laying down a good vocal track, hopefully my post gave you a few ideas about mic choice that may not have occured to you otherwise.

No matter what, thanks for reading my post, and thanks to everyone that does take the time to post here for providing insight and guidance on how to make our recordings as great as they can be.

A.Ray
 
Back
Top