Is it a good idea? (Mic question)

Insainous

New member
Hi there.

So recently i was thinking about recording a music played from a upright piano. I currently have an AT2020 usb and a philips SBC MD110 (ancient). Also, the built-in mics of an Ipad, Galaxy S8, Galaxy S7 and a galaxy S6.

My idea was to put the AT2020 right above the piano, and the built-in cellphone mics near it (altogether). And in the end, get the WAV file from each one of these and then mix it together (although i have very little idea in how i'll do that)

So my question is: Would the extra mics improve the sound of the AT2020 if i mix em in a program afterwards (like Adobe Premiere), or is it a nonsense idea at all?

Thanks a lot for the support.
 
Hey Insainous, I believe that can be done with a suitable mixer (with USB connections as well), and with multiple channels. If you indeed want the sound of all mics blended together, then it is possible. However I would recommend using a good mic (such as the AT2020 you have) to help you achieve a more pure sound from the upright. Let's see if someone else will chime on this one ...bump!

Bump anyone?
 
It might be worth trying. I doubt you'll get good results from all the device mics, but it shouldn't hurt to try. (Just be prepared to throw out anything that doesn't work with prejudice!)
 
"My idea was to put the AT2020 right above the piano, and the built-in cellphone mics near it (altogether). And in the end, get the WAV file from each one of these and then mix it together (although i have very little idea in how i'll do that)"

So long as you CAN finish up with .wavs all of the same sample rate and word length (44.1kHz and 24 bits for preff) yes, this will work. The snag could be lining up the files in the DAW and I don't think you mentioned that?

Reaper can no doubt do this but I know Samplitude Pro X Silver (free) can. Setup as many mono tracks as you need then paste them in (I would put the individual tracks on the Desktop pro tem). You can then click on and slide the tracks to line up. Sam S at least allows the track to be expanded so you can set it to sample accuracy. This needs some practice tho'but!

Dave.
 
The Philips mic is a very cheap dynamic, that is just dull sounding, so I'd simply use the one decent mic you have and experiment till you find the best position. With an arsenal of very good mics, excellent preamps and a wonderful room, it may be possible to time align them all and improve on just one - but as a beginner, almost everything you will do will make the sound worse! You'll get odd comb filtering phases sounds and have real trouble aligning all these on a time line. Forget Premiere - it's time line is designed to use video frames as the smallest time division as it's a video editor, so you cannot do tiny moves at all. There are plenty of decent free editors for audio as Dave says - A video editor isn't one of them!

The piano will either record nicely, or it won't. You have to find the sweet spot, and it could be anywhere - front/back, high or low. The action might mean removing the front panel will reveal all kinds of nasty noises, or it could make the Rec wording better. Recording a piano and getting a sound like you hear on studio recordings is very difficult. Patience and time will be needed. Despite being a USB mic, the AT should be pretty OK with a piano. If - it's a good piano.
 
...
So my question is: Would the extra mics improve the sound of the AT2020 if i mix em in a program afterwards (like Adobe Premiere), or is it a nonsense idea at all?....
I'd put this idea close to the bottom of the list of things to try in order to get a good piano recording.

The device mics are designed to pick up everything, much like camera microphones, though they're even less directional. And it may not be possible to suppress automatic gain (AGC) so when the piano gets quiet, they'll pick up even more of the room noise, the pedal tromping, page turning stuff. Really, for me, I wouldn't bother because life's too short.

As others suggest, the positioning of the AT is going to be key to getting a good recording. Now, being a USB mic, you're somewhat limited but I'd look at getting a cable adapter to plug the mic directly into the iPad, and just record direct to GarageBand. Put everything on a mic stand with iPad clip and move it around and experiment. You'll learn a lot more about mic positioning and that time will be better spent than trying to sync a bunch of marginal recordings. All $.02 IMO/IME, of course, but that's what I'd do.
 
If still intent on using 2 or more mics, I'd say you have 2 approaches on this.
1) 2 mic types close to each other:
-make sure the distance between mic diaphragm and piano is as equal as possible in that case, to avoid as much phase issues as possible. Completely eliminating phase issues will be difficult.
-the other (less good) mic can then add character to the main piano sound, or maybe add some stereo image (in case of stereo mic in phone)
2) If the piano is in a room that sounds good, you could use a (stereo/mono) mic to record the sound of the room and mix it in to taste with a close mic.
-less phase issues in that case
-point room mic away from piano to get more 'room' and less direct sound.
-not too close to a wall either, or phase issues will appear in the room mic (direct sound + reflections from wall)

In any case: experiment and use your ears! Evaluate on a test recording and/or listen with headphones while positioning the mics.
 
Thanks for all the replies.

So, this was my inital idea:

2.png

But the best might be the easiest; as mentioned above: keep experimenting.

Probably the hole lining up thing using a daw should be the trackiest part in my conception.

As soon as i do it, i'll post the results here in the thread.

Thanks again :listeningmusic:
 
So!


I ended up placing (buying) a Zoom H1 on the left and the AT2020 in the right. Then synchronized it in Adobe Audition

I'd like to hear what you guys think, but i can't link the video
 
:thumbs up:

Nice! It felt like it could have had a bit more bottom so I'd play with EQ, mic position, or even try swapping which goes L/R.

The switch between camera angles was a little busy for my taste, esp. around 3:46+, and maybe a little bit of cross fade would make them less jarring for your next number?
 
I loved it, made me crank up the volume and the video was great lighting and well done.
5 stars man ... really like it. sounded great here but who knows what other mics would do?
overdubs and anything else not done is hard to tell if it would improve or distract.
 
:thumbs up:

Nice! It felt like it could have had a bit more bottom so I'd play with EQ, mic position, or even try swapping which goes L/R.

The switch between camera angles was a little busy for my taste, esp. around 3:46+, and maybe a little bit of cross fade would make them less jarring for your next number?

Yup, i actually improvised a stand for the mics, so it was basically limited to one position, wich was close to the hammers. But a real stand is o the way, so i can play with the positions:)

About the video, the main idea was to record always moving the camera, but i haven't got enough people to this yet, sadly

Thanks for the feedback!
 
I loved it, made me crank up the volume and the video was great lighting and well done.
5 stars man ... really like it. sounded great here but who knows what other mics would do?
overdubs and anything else not done is hard to tell if it would improve or distract.


Thanks a lot! I'm glad you liked it!

Actually i used just one preset for the audio, the "Studio Reverb" in Premiere.
 
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