Folk songs (Voice and Acoustic Guitar) Mics and GEAR!

Klof

New member
I'll be starting to record my songs.
For now, I'll be trying to record most of it live playing guitar and singing together.
Perhaps some tracks with overdub, and other second guitars.

I would really like to get a sound similar to early Dylan's stuff and Neil Young Live performances (BBC and Massey Hall For ex).
My voice and singing are pretty much more similar to Dylan than to Neil. My guitar playing on the other hand is totally influenced by Neil.

So here it is: I need to figure it out what Mics to use, what interface and what else do I need and I would really apreciate your help!

So:
Guitar - Shure sm57 (I already have one, so I thought about using it to mic the guitar)
Voice - What do you think?
Interface - ??? (I thought at first about Focusrite Forte Premium but only 2 in can become a problem later. I've been recomended a Focusrite Scarlett 18I20 and a TASCAM UH-7000)


What else, what do you think?

Oh almost forgot... The budget... It should be arround $1000 if possible. If not then tell me what you think and I'll sell some kidneys.

Thaaaaaaaaanks! :)

PS: While we're on that. I've been playing live for a while, but lost many gigs for not having the proper equipament. And I would like to start playing on the street where I need to have it all baiscally. I thought about buying a Sennheiser e945 for vocals (is it really true sm58 is inferior nowadays?). I have a small amp, and I would need what else to make it work?
Sorry for abusing of your patience, I'm pretty new at all that. All I know how to do is get up there and sing.
 
The 57 is a good workhorse. There are better mikes around for guitar, but you won't come to too much grief with the 57. I would go for something that could give a bit more detail.

The Sennheiser e945 is not a mike I have experience with, but it does enjoy a favourable reputation. It would be a worthwhile investment for voice. In fact, get two, and use one on guitar.

The 58, like the 57, is a good solid workhorse, and is still extremely widely used.

When considering an interface, think about how you might like to record in the future, and the number of inputs you will need.
 
Forget trying to duplicate Dylan's old studio or Young's live performance sound when recording - get the sound right - detailed, no clipping, no harshness/boominess or excess room sound (unless you have a well-treated aocustic room).
A couple of SDC (small diaphragm condensor) mics or an LDC (which can also be used for vocal) would typically get the best guitar sound, but if you are trying to record vocal at the same time, you're goiing to get bleed - its always recommended to record the guitar and vocal separately if you can.
As Gecko advised, look at your future needs when choosing an interface. What do you think the maximum number of separate tracks you will wnat to record simultaneously?

As to live playing - although some equipment can be used for both recording/live, think of each separately at this point. The choice for live vocal mic is really up to what sounds good with YOUR voice. I prefer the SM58 because it takes a little of the nasal quality out of my voice without excessive EQing. The Senn e935 (I don't know the 945) has a crisper but not harsher high end to it - works good if you have a smooth voice, also for women's alto voices. What amp do you have? You mention playing 'on the street' - do you mean a battery-powered amp? Does it have guitar + mic inputs? The trick in busking (after making sure its legal in your city and you dont' need a permit) is to be highly portable - everything on a 2-wheel dolly, for example. Some players prefer a headset mic so they don't have to be locked to a standard mic stand. Lots of info on this type of set up at acousticguitarforum.com .
 
Forget trying to duplicate Dylan's old studio or Young's live performance sound when recording - get the sound right - detailed, no clipping, no harshness/boominess or excess room sound (unless you have a well-treated aocustic room).
A couple of SDC (small diaphragm condensor) mics or an LDC (which can also be used for vocal) would typically get the best guitar sound, but if you are trying to record vocal at the same time, you're goiing to get bleed - its always recommended to record the guitar and vocal separately if you can.
As Gecko advised, look at your future needs when choosing an interface. What do you think the maximum number of separate tracks you will wnat to record simultaneously?

As to live playing - although some equipment can be used for both recording/live, think of each separately at this point. The choice for live vocal mic is really up to what sounds good with YOUR voice. I prefer the SM58 because it takes a little of the nasal quality out of my voice without excessive EQing. The Senn e935 (I don't know the 945) has a crisper but not harsher high end to it - works good if you have a smooth voice, also for women's alto voices. What amp do you have? You mention playing 'on the street' - do you mean a battery-powered amp? Does it have guitar + mic inputs? The trick in busking (after making sure its legal in your city and you dont' need a permit) is to be highly portable - everything on a 2-wheel dolly, for example. Some players prefer a headset mic so they don't have to be locked to a standard mic stand. Lots of info on this type of set up at acousticguitarforum.com .

Didn't mean to imitate them, just giving some reference :)

I like the way Dylan voices has what I believe to be a natural room reverb. And I like the way Neil guitar sounds.

Is there much problem with the bleed? Aside from editing later? How do they make that work for those artists that record togheter, or in live performances with later editing?
 
Here's what I use for Guitar/Voice recording: two AKG Perception 120 microphones. They work great for me. Be careful that they don't cancel each other out, though. SM57's will work on a budget, but like Gecko said, you probably want something with a little more detail. And The 120's you can get used for the same price as a used Sm57.

For an interface I would get either The Presonus Firestudio Project (what I have) or the USB version, the PreSonus AudioBox1818 VSL- Advanced 18x18 USB 2.0 recording interface.

NOTE: If your computer doesn't have a firewire port, you are probably gonna want the USB. I got mine used from ebay for half the price new.

A two input rig is great if you are just starting out, but I found that I needed to upgrade within a month of getting mine, so I would just go and get one with at least eight inputs and MIDI capabilities.

Also, you'll probably want to get one of the package deals- cords and mixing headphones REALLY start to stretch your budget.

This is just what I've found to work for me, though to be fair, I haven't tried much else. Though I must say that Presonus is on the less costly side of things, and they offer great quality products.

I get almost all my stuff used because it's cheaper. Allot of guys say not to because sound and recording equipment is rather fragile, but so far I've been careful and haven't gotten burned yet. And I'm not too afraid of broken stuff 'cause I'm real handy with a soldering iron and duct tape. ;)

Good luck!
 
The 57 is a good workhorse. There are better mikes around for guitar, but you won't come to too much grief with the 57. I would go for something that could give a bit more detail.

The Sennheiser e945 is not a mike I have experience with, but it does enjoy a favourable reputation. It would be a worthwhile investment for voice. In fact, get two, and use one on guitar.

The 58, like the 57, is a good solid workhorse, and is still extremely widely used.

When considering an interface, think about how you might like to record in the future, and the number of inputs you will need.

I meant E935 actually, my bad.

Won't a condenser work better for recording?
 
I meant E935 actually, my bad.

Won't a condenser work better for recording?

Not necessarily - it depends upon what you're trying to achieve. If you have $1000, however, then a good interface and a couple of mic options aren't beyond you, so I'd get an LDC for voice, an SDC for guitar and you already have the 57. I don't know what the good budget options are, however.

You can get by with a 2 mic input interface, but having additional line inputs is handy, as is MIDI, even if you don't know exactly what for yet. The Focusrite interfaces get good press, but don't get the really bottom of the line ones as they don't have much input / output flexibility. Whatever you get, ensure it has phantom power.
 
Is there much problem with the bleed? Aside from editing later? How do they make that work for those artists that record togheter, or in live performances with later editing?

You can't edit out bleed. :rolleyes: With 2 mics, and positioning correctly for the nulls of each mic, you can cut down on bleed - assuming your room is treated enough acoustically to cut down reflections.
Dylan's early solo stuff - all in mono, in a good studio room, probably with a big plate reverb room added to it. Neil's guitar secrets? They're all secret - everyone who works/worked with him has been pledged to silence on details - I know a guy who just quit working for him after 15+ years. He won't tell me a thing!
 
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I haven't been on in a long time, but I thought I might jump in here.
You can try to make the bleed work for you. I've had good luck using a mid-side setup: a cheap MXL ribbon and an SM94. You can record your vocals and guitar at the same time. It gives a nice, natural, realistic sound. You could use your 57 in place of the 94 if you want.
It might take a lot of time experimenting to get the right placement, but the time you invest will pay dividends.
 
You can't edit out bleed. :rolleyes: With 2 mics, and positioning correctly for the nulls of each mic, you can cut down on bleed - assuming your room is treated enough acoustically to cut down reflections.

I didn't mean edit out the bleed hehe. I meant "other than the fact that you can't edit the voice and the guitar separated" is there any other problem? :)
 
I meant "other than the fact that you can't edit the voice and the guitar separated" is there any other problem? :)

Actually, if you use two mics, one on your voice, and one on your guitar, you can do some editing to both tracks. Nothing fancy, mind you, but I have used some of these tracks in my finished products. And (at least to me) they sound great. I usually just add some reverb to the voice and guitar, maybe an amp modeling plugin to the guitar track, and maybe some compression. Or perhaps I just misunderstood your question.
 
I haven't been on in a long time, but I thought I might jump in here.
You can try to make the bleed work for you. I've had good luck using a mid-side setup: a cheap MXL ribbon and an SM94. You can record your vocals and guitar at the same time. It gives a nice, natural, realistic sound. You could use your 57 in place of the 94 if you want.
It might take a lot of time experimenting to get the right placement, but the time you invest will pay dividends.

The ribbon would be for the voice right?
How would I make the bleed work for me, can you be more specific? :)


Also I've been reading a lot about getting 2 figure 8 microphones using the deaf side to pick less bleed... Although no one suggested that here. Any particular reason? I'm kind of afraid those mic won't pick the best of my voice.
 
The ribbon would be for the voice right?
How would I make the bleed work for me, can you be more specific? :)

Both the ribbon and the condenser pick up both sources. You would place the figure 8 mic sideways and then the condenser aimed at the source. You will end up with three tracks that work together to provide a stereo signal. You won't really be able to edit vocals and guitar separately though. You can read up some more about mid-side technique.


Also I've been reading a lot about getting 2 figure 8 microphones using the deaf side to pick less bleed... Although no one suggested that here. Any particular reason?

Figure 8 mics have a deep null off axis that can be advantageous. However, it still picks up from both the front and back of the mic.

I'm kind of afraid those mic won't pick the best of my voice.

I've used several different mics on my voice and none of them pick up the best of my voice. I have come to accept that I just don't have a nice sounding voice, regardless of mic choice. So I really can't offer any advice here.
 
Ok I think I decided. Since I already have a Sm57, I'll use that as a Dynamic for live and stuff.

Most important, For recording:
I'll be getting a SDC for the guitar. I thought of the Rode NT5. I like the fact that they come in pairs but I wonder does that makes their quality lower? Or I liked also the Shure SM81-LC . Any other special recomendations please? (specially cause I'm starting to think I'm not really a Rode fan...)

But I'm most concerned about the vocals so I want a good LDC. I'm up for spending something up to 500 or 600 on a LDC. But the one I liked the most was the Blue Bird. Much more than the Rodes I listened. There's also the AKG C214 that I liked. (aaand the Blue Baby Bottle which I loved but there's not much on youtube comparing with others)

You guys know more... What you think? anyone of these or any other sugestion??
 
I like the fact that they come in pairs but I wonder does that makes their quality lower?
Sort of like cheaper by the dozen?

Far from it. The NT5s come as a matched pair for when you want near-identical mikes to do stereo work (e.g. as overheads on a kit, or maybe miking up a piano.

The NT5 mike is a good, solid SDC, and I would not discount it straight away.
 
Sort of like cheaper by the dozen?

Far from it. The NT5s come as a matched pair for when you want near-identical mikes to do stereo work (e.g. as overheads on a kit, or maybe miking up a piano.

The NT5 mike is a good, solid SDC, and I would not discount it straight away.

Yes cheaper by the dozen, that was my concern :P hehe

The baby bottle looks pretty good, anyone have experience with it?
 
Yes cheaper by the dozen, that was my concern :P hehe

The Baby Bottle looks pretty good, anyone have experience with it?

I'm really up for spending some bucks on the Vocal mic... and yet still puzzled to decide which one.
I feel afraid that some say blue mics are all about the looks.

I've come to some:
Blue Baby Bottle (or Blue Bird?)
Rode K2
Rode NTK
AKG 214
(I don't see much fuzz about it but loved it too...)

Or another? up to $600-700
If it's worth it a little bit more, but those I checked come for less than that and sound pretty professional.

If you guys could help me decide :)
 
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