Electrovoice RE-20 with no bass responce?

Shakedown St.

New member
Hello HR forum,

Just purchased a used RE-20 on eBay, but for some reason has little to no bass response.

I'm running it into a Scarlett Solo, and adding EQ does not help. Just sold an SM7B that was giving me much more bass.

I came across a good review from Booth Junkies YouTube channel, where apparently he is running it flat onto the board.

YouTube

Sounds nothing like what I am getting, even after EQ.

YouTube

In my case, would I really need a CloudLifter or might it be something else entirely? Trying to determine if it's damaged. I'd say it's around 10-15 years old.
 
Hi,
Directly compared to a 7b, an re20 should sound less bassy.
The thing is, the bass is there; It's just not accentuated by proximity effect (by design).

On the other hand, these big dynamic capsules are known to fail, after a life of knocks and bumps, in such a way that the coil touches the housing ever so slightly; Just enough to kill bass response.
It's very common with the old d12s because of the way they are constructed, but can happen with any moving coil mic.

If that's the case you'd probably know. Still, can you post a quick voice mp3 for us to hear?
 
The RE-20 has a feature called 'Variable D' which minimizes proximity effect. Proximity effect is when you get closer to the mic you get a bassier response. As well it has a switchable high pass filter. Do you have the high pass filter enabled?
 
it might be damaged. buying mics used is always a fear of mine.
the one dewd was hushed on slutzgear because he bought a expensive Neumann and the repair dude said someone had popped in a chineese capsule...he was saying the repair guy put in the chineese capsule and he had sent it with the oem neumann capsule..

RE20 probably no one is stealing the capsule...McCartneys RAM and Stevie Wonder used these but into what pre and channel gear I dont know? but how would a person know if it worked normal or not unless they had other RE20 experience?

I wouldnt know. I thought the SM7 and RE20 were a couple of the toughest mics out there so being damaged isnt real likely is it?

low sensitivity mics into a nice fat-gain pre going into the interface would tell, ISA One or something is a real tank built unit with massive gain.

I cant imagine a Scarlett Solo even working that well with either of those mics? USB powered 500ma for the entire unit....i suppose if the source is really loud. :confused:

That video at 1539 mentions less bass VariableD design thing, thats a good video imo...covers the two mics well and tosses in a condensor comaparison.

VD= less bass on the RE20. looks like that answers the mic isnt defective.
Cloudlifter for the Scarlett is another hidden cost.

Ive found mics with 14mv/pa sensitivity work well with interface preamps and poor/avg rooms.
getting in the 28mv/pa sensitivity it can start getting too sensitive for the poor/avg room and background noises.

Shure KSM27 with a pop-filter is a a great deal at $100-$150 including all the clips and holders...
a very crisp and decent specs, professional built, and probably doesnt need a outboard preamp, used live without worry due to being made of metal and a thick metal grill.
 
Some old RE-20s might need the internal foam parts replaced. If it rattles even a little bit it should be serviced. DIY instructions are on the web.
 
I cant imagine a Scarlett Solo even working that well with either of those mics? USB powered 500ma for the entire unit....i suppose if the source is really loud. :confused:

VD= less bass on the RE20. looks like that answers the mic isnt defective.
Cloudlifter for the Scarlett is another hidden cost.

Great write up!

You mention the Scarlett may have a difficult time powering these mics properly to begin with? Any interface out there under the $200 range you feel would work better?
 
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Hi,
Directly compared to a 7b, an re20 should sound less bassy.
The thing is, the bass is there; It's just not accentuated by proximity effect (by design).

On the other hand, these big dynamic capsules are known to fail, after a life of knocks and bumps, in such a way that the coil touches the housing ever so slightly; Just enough to kill bass response.
It's very common with the old d12s because of the way they are constructed, but can happen with any moving coil mic.

If that's the case you'd probably know. Still, can you post a quick voice mp3 for us to hear?

My upload sample is the second video above, and honestly doesn't sound bad but nothing compared to the top video.

That would be a goal to get out of this mic, I know it can sound that good. Based on the manual, looks to be 15 years old.

Just getting no bass responce out of it, extremely flat. I'm also recording straight into Final Cut Pro.
 
The RE-20 has a feature called 'Variable D' which minimizes proximity effect. Proximity effect is when you get closer to the mic you get a bassier response. As well it has a switchable high pass filter. Do you have the high pass filter enabled?

Did try switching that on and off, didn't have much of an effect.
 
My upload sample is the second video above, and honestly doesn't sound bad but nothing compared to the top video.

That would be a goal to get out of this mic, I know it can sound that good. Based on the manual, looks to be 15 years old.

Just getting no bass responce out of it, extremely flat. I'm also recording straight into Final Cut Pro.

Oh, my apologies!
That sounds normal to me. I think maybe you're just having the shock of switching from plain cardioid with proxy effect to a mic that minimises it.
The bass roll switch off on the re20s is pretty subtle, I find, on voice.

You should find if you boost the bass slightly with eq it's all there, whereas with a faulty mic it just wouldn't be.
 
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Spec shows the RE20 to be about 6dB more sensitive than the SM7b so unless you are getting a distinct loss of level as well I doubt you have a 'stuck', diaphragm. The sensitivity is comparable to an SM57 and plenty of peeps use one of those with a bog S F'rite or similar.

BTW, due to another thread about the perennial "is it loud enough" question I am setting up some tests to show levels from mics in front of a Greenback.

Will put it in 'Contributions'.

Bear with,
Dave.
 
+1.
Have to admit, the other fella's video sounds a lot bassier but I'd put that down to his voice more than anything, and his environment too.
I have a pretty deep voice and it always comes across much stronger when I have dampening panels thrown up around the mic.

You can hear the bass disappear, along with everything else, when he demonstrates about 1 foot distance from the mic, too.
Although proximity effect is reduced, being very close will still matter.
 
Mine sounds like it has poor bass - it doesn't, but even with lips on the capsule the bottom end is very similar sounding to an omni. That's their characteristic. A very similar thing happens with AKG 202/212 types as well.
 
Perhaps my voice would benefit from using a tube preamp, I know the reviewer was using a Zoom H5. Not sure if the Zoom H5 sounds any warmer from Scarlett Solo. Whenever my voice is recorded, it sounds dramatically thinner from what people tell me it sounds like when I've shown them comparisons.
 
Your clip sounds in no way unnatural so that leads me to believe it's an accurate enough portrayal of your voice.

Like I say, though, distance and environment are still factors.
Describe your room, and technique.

Preamp would be the last thing I'd look at.
In order, source, microphone distance, microphone position, environment, eq, preamp.
 
Perhaps my voice would benefit from using a tube preamp, I know the reviewer was using a Zoom H5. Not sure if the Zoom H5 sounds any warmer from Scarlett Solo. Whenever my voice is recorded, it sounds dramatically thinner from what people tell me it sounds like when I've shown them comparisons.

There are some very well entrenched misconceptions about valves and transformers in audio. Left to its own devices a triode will deliver very low distortion (they use them in hi fi amps FFS!) unless 'unnatural' means are used to push the valve very hard, something you are unlikely to do with a low output dynamic microphone.

The frequency response of a triode amp is also flat across the audio band, 5Hz to 25kHz, nay sweat. Yes a transformer (need one at the front at least) can give bit of an LF 'bump' but this well below human voice (tape suffers the same 'wabbles' at LF) and even here, VERY GOOD transformers can be very flat to well below 20Hz.

To stay with traffs, yes, can introduce distortion (aka "warmf"!) but again you have to hit them hard and I don't see you doing that with an RE 20?

There are of course cheap 'Toob' pres that use a 'Starved Plate' regime and overdrive the valve early but such things are really of more interest to guitarists or others want some 'colour' to the sound.

Dave.
 
Okay you know what it is, the RE20 is a dynamic microphone not a condensor. This problem had everything to do with my recording technique, and the problem with the 2i2.

Consumer preamps do not provide enough juice for dynamic microphones since they are not phantom powered. If I turn up my preamp close to the right level it will introduce a ton of noise. I had the mix on my pre turned down low, and in software would then boost the sound 8-10db. Even at that, I have to speak loudly into the Focusrite 2i2 with my levels maxed out.

If you have your pre's sensitivity turned down too low, it will not pick up the bass response you want especially if you do not have a loud voice to begin with. The two options are to get a Cloudlifter that will boost the signal, or get a cardioid mic instead that is easier to use. Really like the CAD E100S, the more I mess around with the Electrovoice the more I understand how to use it.
 
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Okay you know what it is, the RE20 is a dynamic microphone not a cardioid.
This problem had everything to do with my recording technique, and the problem with the 2i2.

Consumer preamps do not provide enough juice for dynamic microphones since they are not phantom powered. If I turn up my preamp close to the right level it will introduce a ton of noise. I had the mix on my pre turned down low, and in software would then boost the sound 8-10db. Even at that, I have to speak loudly into the Focusrite 2i2 with my levels maxed out.

If you have your pre's sensitivity turned down too low, it will not pick up the bass response you want especially if you do not have a loud voice to begin with. The two options are to get a Cloudlifter that will boost the signal, or get a cardioid mic instead that is easier to use. Really like the CAD E100S, the more I mess around with the Electrovoice the more I understand how to use it.

Cardioid refers to the polar pattern of the microphone; The direction in which it will best pick up sound.
Dynamic refers to the mechanical means of producing an output voltage; It's a moving coil microphone.


Whether the preamp gain is set high or low shouldn't have any measurable effect on bass response, I don't think.

If you're having issues with there being audible hiss in the recordings then your conclusion is right, but I think you meant to suggest a condender/capacitor microphone?
Any means of making the signal hotter before the preamp should help. See this thread.

That said, lack of bass and noise in the recording are two different issues.
I think lack of bass is coming from either
1: The voice not being bassy
2: The distance from the mic being too great
3: The environment in which you're recording
or 4: A damaged/broken mic, which I think we've ruled out.

Being blunt? I don't get the impression you have a bassy voice.
 
That said, lack of bass and noise in the recording are two different issues.
I think lack of bass is coming from either
1: The voice not being bassy
2: The distance from the mic being too great
3: The environment in which you're recording
or 4: A damaged/broken mic, which I think we've ruled out.

Being blunt? I don't get the impression you have a bassy voice.
Find a friend you think has a bassy deep voice and give it a try on them.

FWIW, I thought the sample of the Re-20 sounded OK.
 
[MENTION=43272]Steenamaroo[/MENTION]
Off topic I know, but......awesome website.you got. Mad props for that. :)
 
I really do feel it's the preamp the more I play with it and not the microphone. The reviews I read on Scarlett Pres being notorious for driver distortion rings true with me. It sounds like I'm running it through a dial up connection, very pixelated at times and so much latency.

If you look at the Amazon reviews for Scarlett 2i2's, everyone is talking about the same problem. This would explain why I've already gone through three really good microphones that give off the same sound. It's not really a lack of bass, it's sounds like you are constantly clipping no matter what level you place it on and no matter what instrument I record.

Before I go out buying anymore microphones or software, I think I need to take a serious look at changing out my preamplifier.
 
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