Dynamic vs Condenser?

S

SInstitute

New member
Hey Guys,

What is the difference between these two?

I thought condenser provides the more intimate bassy radio voice, but many radio stations use dynamic mics?
 
Two completely different ways to capture sound. Dynamic works better for live broadcast, handheld, singing live, and other venues where absolutely realistic accuracy is less important, and eliminating background noise is more important. Dynamic mics work like a speaker in reverse, and require no additional power. Condenser mics require 48V to generate their signal. You can get a top of the line dynamic mic for under $500. Top of the line condenser mics cost more, are more delicate, and require a bit of distance from the mouth.
 
'Proximity effect' that I mentioned in one of your other threads. Both condenser and dynamic are capable of it in different degrees so long as you are using a cardioid type of pattern. 'Intimate', the word you used is what you want to do with the mic.... get up close. Getting up close also means you can reduce the gain of your preamp, which means less room sounds are picked up.


 
Here's a frequency graph of a popular handheld dynamic mic. Note how the bass sensitivity changes with distance to the mic....proximity effect. Condensers will be similar. Find the 'sweet spot' distance that gives a good balance of the sound you want.
 

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The other thing to note is that this effect is more apparent, and changes in the mic response more noticeable, the closer you get. So, if you're 3" away and move to 6" it's a bigger, more audible, difference than if you're 12" away and move to 15" say. But, as [MENTION=190964]arcaxis[/MENTION] points out, when you move back you'll probably increase the gain, which means that more of the room sounds are captured.

The Electro-Voice RE-20 is a dynamic mic designed to have less proximity effect. This makes it popular for some folks perhaps because they don't stay a uniform distance from the mic, and so allows a bit closer work without as noticeable changes when moving around as the SM7b would show at the same distances. (NB. I tested the cheaper RE-320, which looks like the same design, but I found its proximity effect to be pretty noticeable.)

Both the SM7b and RE-20 would likely need a preamp, or something like a "Cloudlifter" before your average audio interface, FWIW. (I'd say with your voice/delivery almost certainly worth getting one if you intend to try one of these mics.)
 
Capacitor mics have a much more extended frequency response than most dynamics and a flatter response to boot.
The Proximity Effect is present for any directional mic to some extent (if you want the technical dope it is because a distant sound has a spherical wavefront but a very close one tends to planar and directional mics are sensitive to the change)

The 'room pickup' effect of capacitor microphones can be mitigated by using one with a 10 or 20dB attenuator. The sensitivity then reduces to near that of many dynamics and you can then get closer (Pop Shield!!) and get all the 'room busting' benefits of the dymo but keeping the wide, flat response.

If reducing actual room noises, PC e.g is the issue, IF you can hear it sitting at the mic position, SO can the mic, of ANY OP principle including Carbon resistive!

Dave.
 
Ah, I'm a little confused now.

Basically for those who haven't seen my other thread, I really like the Rode Broadcaster because many reviewers have commented it has that 'artificial' radio sound, which is what I would like to go for.. If the Shure or Re20 can do that then I will consider it.

This guy uses Rode Broadcaster (as do many other radio stations and Youtubers), and at the end of the video he gets up close to the mic and it sounds very nice, I was very impressed by this.

YouTube

....

The use would be for my Youtube channel which is growing, and I get 20-30k viewers a month at the moment and many teachers are using (and hopefully continue using my hundreds to be released videos) in classrooms with loud speakers so I would like to up my production quality going forward. Of course I don't think I have a nice natural radio/podcasting/announcer voice in my opinion - but I suppose I can't control that.

YouTube

So certainly it's a choice between the Shure, Re20, Rode and I would even consider TLM 103 if it was worth the result as I really do see it as a one time investment and I have at least 700 maths videos to make.
 
"Ah, I'm a little confused now." Sorry!

I merely wished to point out that the various differences between mic operating systems are not AS important as the way they are used. Everything has to obey the laws of physics (esoteric mathematicians excluded!) .
I am sure ANY of the mics suggested will do a good job. Results will depend far more on local conditions and implementation.

Dave.
 
i think of the two like ears, some are more sensitive and can hear the minuscule sounds, where the other doesnt hear so well, is less sensitive, needs more volume or closeness to sound ok ....but one isnt better than the other.

condensers can sound beautiful , maybe not even need eq, and often doesnt need any outboard gear to be bought, but it will also pickup every minuscule noise of a crappy room. A computer fan sitting 2ft away, the pc fan will be heard when the headphones are on...so you take off the headphones wondering whats all that noise? but youll hear nothing... wtf? we might wonder.
dynamics can sound really blah and lifeless without help and in comparison to the polished crisp condenser.

the problem with both-
you like the super sensitive condenser best! so then you start doing crazy things to your room, things that make your dog wonder wtf is he doing? as you drape blankets and pillows and pads and drill holes in your walls to move your pc into another room and if married, have to convince your wife you need a bunch of weird ass fiberglass shit nailed to the walls and ceiling and so shes thinking uh oh! and calls her mom worried about your mental health. The other husbands are mowing the yard and you sit in a fiberglass room smiling, with headphones on.

or you get a dynamic mic and then start shopping preamps because your interface preamp is max'd and so theres that water running noise like hssssssshhhhhh white noise like crap from the max'd preamp.... and so finding the best preamp in the world becomes your obsession.
your wife divorces you because you spent so much time picking out preamps and compressors and eq's, you forget her birthday, your anniversary, and you were supposed to pick her up at the airport 2 days ago.

its a tough choice
 
CoolCat said:
i think of the two like ears, some are more sensitive and can hear the minuscule sounds, where the other doesnt hear so well, is less sensitive, needs more volume or closeness to sound ok ....but one isnt better than the other.

condensers can sound beautiful , maybe not even need eq, and often doesnt need any outboard gear to be bought, but it will also pickup every minuscule noise of a crappy room. A computer fan sitting 2ft away, the pc fan will be heard when the headphones are on...so you take off the headphones wondering whats all that noise? but youll hear nothing... wtf? we might wonder.
dynamics can sound really blah and lifeless without help and in comparison to the polished crisp condenser.

the problem with both-
you like the super sensitive condenser best! so then you start doing crazy things to your room, things that make your dog wonder wtf is he doing? as you drape blankets and pillows and pads and drill holes in your walls to move your pc into another room and if married, have to convince your wife you need a bunch of weird ass fiberglass shit nailed to the walls and ceiling and so shes thinking uh oh! and calls her mom worried about your mental health. The other husbands are mowing the yard and you sit in a fiberglass room smiling, with headphones on.

or you get a dynamic mic and then start shopping preamps because your interface preamp is max'd and so theres that water running noise like hssssssshhhhhh white noise like crap from the max'd preamp.... and so finding the best preamp in the world becomes your obsession.
your wife divorces you because you spent so much time picking out preamps and compressors and eq's, you forget her birthday, your anniversary, and you were supposed to pick her up at the airport 2 days ago.

its a tough choice
Click to expand...

Lol. Now that really does add to the problem.

I guess I will have listen to more examples with Youtubers using the different mics.

For my work, is condenser generally considered the best?

I would consider mkh 416 as I know these mics can last decades. Would that mic offer noticeable improvement from the Rode Broadcaster?
 
SInstitute said:
Lol. Now that really does add to the problem.

I guess I will have listen to more examples with Youtubers using the different mics.

For my work, is condenser generally considered the best?

I would consider mkh 416 as I know these mics can last decades. Would that mic offer noticeable improvement from the Rode Broadcaster?
Click to expand...

Yes but! The 10/20dB pad solves the sensitivity problem at a stroke. I can get as close as I want to my AKG P150s or Sontronics ST-150. Until the advent of Home Recording mics were just made to 'do a job' and those designs are still valid. Everything else is largely marketing BS.

Dave.
 
Not sure how basic you want to go, but someone asked about the different types of microphones recently and there were some good replies.
Might be worth a look.

Whether a dynamic or condenser is best for your voice application...It really is just preference.
Well, preference and environment/equipment.

In an environment with other people working or live fans I'd want a dynamic mic very close to me.
They're generally more forgiving with plosives so close proximity work is easier, and that close proximity lets your signal be a lot louder relative to background noise.

On the other hand if your preamp isn't great quality and introduces hiss or doesn't have a lot of gain, the hotter source input of a capacitor mic can help to set you above that.

If both are a problem then getting good wind/blast protection on a capacitor mic, and staying close to it, is probably the best bet.
 
Steenamaroo said:
Not sure how basic you want to go, but someone asked about the different types of microphones recently and there were some good replies.
Might be worth a look.

Whether a dynamic or condenser is best for your voice application...It really is just preference.
Well, preference and environment/equipment.

In an environment with other people working or live fans I'd want a dynamic mic very close to me.
They're generally more forgiving with plosives so close proximity work is easier, and that close proximity lets your signal be a lot louder relative to background noise.

On the other hand if your preamp isn't great quality and introduces hiss or doesn't have a lot of gain, the hotter source input of a capacitor mic can help to set you above that.

If both are a problem then getting good wind/blast protection on a capacitor mic, and staying close to it, is probably the best bet.
Click to expand...

Well in my office room it is just me. I think I will carpet the floor to absorb sound better.

But I wish there was a place I could try out all the mics and then buy one. I'm not sure about ordering then returning, a small mark or dent may mean I don't get my money back.

With tennis racquets (my other passions), we have this thing called testers as the racquets needed for competition play are expensive, around £150 for the frame, and strings and stringing costs have to factored regularly. Before we buy, we can go test or even order testers. I wish something like this was available where I could try the 4 different mics and then decide to buy. If it meant I wouldn't ever have to buy a mic again I don't mind spending £700 for a Neumann or Senheisser.
 
Not sure if this will help or not. The link below is a 'market place' for voice actors for hire. They have demos of their work and some have bios of the mics and gear they have used. These demos are generally going to be done in well treated rooms by folks that have very good skills at recording. Where a bio may have a bio that lists multiple mics it may be impossible to know what was used, but may help narrow what you're looking for. Listen for a voice that may be similar to yours and see what they use. Fun listening to some of these and putting a face behind some you may have heard on actual commercials.

Explore Voice Actors | Voices.com | Voices.com

This is the 'Educational' category which is probably where you'll end up.........
Educational Voices | Voices.com

Note... some use Neumann U87's. There are 'clones' that very well replicate a U87. I bought a Warm Audio WA87 which is supposed to be close.
Warm Audio WA-87 |
 
arcaxis said:
Not sure if this will help or not. The link below is a 'market place' for voice actors for hire. They have demos of their work and some have bios of the mics and gear they have used. These demos are generally going to be done in well treated rooms by folks that have very good skills at recording. Where a bio may have a bio that lists multiple mics it may be impossible to know what was used, but may help narrow what you're looking for. Listen for a voice that may be similar to yours and see what they use. Fun listening to some of these and putting a face behind some you may have heard on actual commercials.

Explore Voice Actors | Voices.com | Voices.com

This is the 'Educational' category which is probably where you'll end up.........
Educational Voices | Voices.com

Note... some use Neumann U87's. There are 'clones' that very well replicate a U87. I bought a Warm Audio WA87 which is supposed to be close.
Warm Audio WA-87 |
Click to expand...

Thank you. I'll have a look when I get home.

It's quite nice learning about something new, world of mics and voice acting it is rather interesting I must say.
 
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