Dynamic or Condenser?

W

warlock110

New member
I'm looking for a new vocal mic and I'm still debating which mic I should get.

I have an SM58, and a large condenser CAD M177 (the little bro of the M179 multi pattern mic)

the SM58 doesn't pick up room sound (the CAD M177 does pick up a tiny bit of room sound, like most large condenser it tend to pick up alot of stuff)

The SM58 sounds thicker (more like a hump at the lower mid) and I can't really get the high end to work on the SM58, the CAD M177 has a much nicer high end.


So that's my little test, I've actually been playing around with these mic for a while and I think it's time I get an upgrade, before this I actually wanted an SM7B, but if it's anything like the SM58 I don't want it haha.

Besides that if I'm going for large condenser I'm thinking of the ADK Vienna/Humberg or the AT4033, or the SP C1... those seems to be popular for vocal, the SP C1 is extra cheap compare to the ones I just listed.

What you think?
 
I own a lot of mics--but I still can't answer your question because I don't own a 58. I own a few really tight clones and they've got their own midrange bump, but probably not in the same place as the 58.

My only advice is not to assume the SM7b is so similar to the 58 that you rule it out. In fact, I do own the other two mics you talks about: the M177 and the SM7b. I've used the M177 for a choral vocal situation (because I have a pair) but not for lead vox. And I use the SM7b a lot for lead vox.

So if your 58 doesn't seem to kick butt on your M177--don't think that means an SM7b won't either. You should at least check one out.
 
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Is it a 58 or a Beta 58? The Beta 58 has been one of the best vocal mics to grace my mic locker. Some will disagree, but I've gotten more keeper vocal takes from that mic than any other.
 
warlock110 said:
I'm thinking of the ADK Vienna/Humberg or the AT4033, or the SP C1... those seems to be popular for vocal, the SP C1 is extra cheap compare to the ones I just listed. What you think?
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What do you think "extra cheap" really means? Trust me, there is a reason why it's "extra cheap."


The ADK and the SP mics are not in the same league as the AT4033, not even close.

And yes the SM7 is worth every penny.
 
MadAudio said:
Is it a 58 or a Beta 58? The Beta 58 has been one of the best vocal mics to grace my mic locker. Some will disagree, but I've gotten more keeper vocal takes from that mic than any other.
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Just a regular 58... that was my 2nd dynamic (had a PG 58 too haha).

soundchaser59 said:
What do you think "extra cheap" really means? Trust me, there is a reason why it's "extra cheap."


The ADK and the SP mics are not in the same league as the AT4033, not even close.

And yes the SM7 is worth every penny.
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The ADK is actually quite expensive (but that probably doesn't tell the whole story)... I really been eyeing the AT4033, seems like a nice vocal mic from other people experience.

WhiteStrat said:
I own a lot of mics--but I still can't answer your question because I don't own a 58. I own a few really tight clones and they've got their own midrange bump, but probably not in the same place as the 58.

My only advice is not to assume the SM7b is so similar to the 58 that you rule it out. In fact, I do own the other two mics you talks about: the M177 and the SM7b. I've used the M177 for a choral vocal situation (because I have a pair) but not for lead vox. And I use the SM7b a lot for lead vox.

So if your 58 doesn't seem to kick butt on your M177--don't think that means an SM7b won't either. You should at least check one out.
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The M177 was good for me, I got good practice/experience from it, probably one of the better cheap condenser IMO, it doesn't really have that hyper high end alot of condenser have, but also it's kindda boring...
 
For vocals and the AT line, I'd use the AT4040 over the AT4033 (I've got both) - the 4033 is too bright for most vocals. A lot of people here really like the 4050, which is multipattern and a little more $, but I don't have that one.

I've also got the SM7b and the SM58 - the 58 works well on some voices (like occasionally mine) that need help, but SM7b is much more versatile and flat (unless you change the switches on the back to make it not flat). Remember that the 58 is really designed for live vocals, to cut through a flonking mix of sound coming from the mains - really not intended for recording, and this is not the case with the SM7b. If the vocals you're recording are high energy - yelling, screaming, or singing well with a lot of dynamic range, but mostly louder, then the SM7b is fantastic. I also think it's better for male voices than female ones, and it works well with mine if I'm in good vocal shape. Weaker, softer, thinner voices (male or female) may call for a different mic - probably a condenser. Of course, it's also perfect for spoken word - it's a broadcast mic by design. Sometimes I record interviews, and I don't think twice about grabbing the SM7b for that - I got two of them for this reason.

My favorite condenser for vocals right now is an Oktavamod FDPE MK-319 (this is an Oktava MK-319 modded by Michael Joly at Oktavamod). Very versatile - works with all sorts of voices, and imparts a mellow but solid quality to the recorded sound. The total cost is likely a little more than the AT mics, depending on how much you pay for the MK-319 (usually these are less than $100).
 
I had an AT4033a. It was rather weak in the baritone voice, so it probably wouldn't work for most male singers. It sounded good on Tuba, and French Horn / Mellophone. A little thin on Trumpet, and almost not existant on Baritone / Euphonium. Lots of detail though. I could make out soft conversations from across the room, even the kids dvd player off in a distant corner. If you don't mind doing some EQ tweaking it could be used for many things. But it was a bit hyped in the lows/highs for my tastes.

I like the LDCs for recording rehearsals. Enough detail to pick out small imperfections. But that may not suit your needs. In the meantime I've drifted more towards SDCs so the EQ of the recording is relatively flat and more closey resembles the sound of the source.
 
I beleave that

MadAudio said:
Is it a 58 or a Beta 58? The Beta 58 has been one of the best vocal mics to grace my mic locker. Some will disagree, but I've gotten more keeper vocal takes from that mic than any other.
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I know someone that sounds much better with a SKS clone of a SM 58 then the real thing depending on the frequency curve of the mike and were it peaks or drops on the frequency range of the mic. makes or breaks it for ones vocal range

My 2 Watts
 
SM58 = rotten ball sack
SM7 = Sweet delicious goodness

They are not the same mic by a long shot. Another warning on the SM7. The SM7 was the first mic I ever got based on those older and wiser guiding me. I hated the mic. I listened to it soloed and nothing sounded big and fireworky... Well guess what, now that I am old and wiser, tracks recorded on the SM7 sit well in the mix and are damn near brilliant most of the time. (Assuming I am using it on an appropriate source...) So really, give that mic a try before looking to LDCs for vocals.
 
bubbagump said:
SM58 = rotten ball sack
SM7 = Sweet delicious goodness

They are not the same mic by a long shot. Another warning on the SM7. The SM7 was the first mic I ever got based on those older and wiser guiding me. I hated the mic. I listened to it soloed and nothing sounded big and fireworky... Well guess what, now that I am old and wiser, tracks recorded on the SM7 sit well in the mix and are damn near brilliant most of the time. (Assuming I am using it on an appropriate source...) So really, give that mic a try before looking to LDCs for vocals.
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Assuming the OP has a decent preamp. A good dynamic mic will not be anywhere near its potential without enough clean gain. A condenser mic is more forgiving in that regard.

It does not have to be $1000+ slutty golden channel, but it has to not suck. I can tell you the difference in my RE20 gets pretty noticable going between my Sytek and a generic mixer preamp.
 
leddy said:
Assuming the OP has a decent preamp. A good dynamic mic will not be anywhere near its potential without enough clean gain. A condenser mic is more forgiving in that regard.

It does not have to be $1000+ slutty golden channel, but it has to not suck. I can tell you the difference in my RE20 gets pretty noticable going between my Sytek and a generic mixer preamp.
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I have an MPA Gold with the tubes replaced, it's decent, max gain is around 65db which is probably enough, the MPA gold isn't great but it's usable IMO.
 
warlock110 said:
I have an MPA Gold with the tubes replaced, it's decent, max gain is around 65db which is probably enough, the MPA gold isn't great but it's usable IMO.
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I have a Digital MPA (essentially the same thing with A/D) also with different tubes, and it works great with the SM7b, especially with the input impedance turned most of the way up. Very nice combination.
 
antichef said:
I have a Digital MPA (essentially the same thing with A/D) also with different tubes, and it works great with the SM7b, especially with the input impedance turned most of the way up. Very nice combination.
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I concur. I use an MPA gold w/my sm7b and find it deeply satisfying. :)
 
Here is a link to a song in which I recorded 40+ vocal tracks with an MP-2NV and an EV RE-20. I used a Sonitus LA-2A plug and some Lexicon reverb.

http://www.nowhereradio.com/lpc/singles





The RE-20 is by far my favorite vocal mic - for me - and I've tried a LOT of vocal mics. I like it better on my voice than a U87.

So yes, a nice dynamic can compete with a top shelf condenser.
 
I know that tune was posted in the clinic, and I never chimed in there, so I will here: wow!! That sounds great. And if those vocals aren't a testimonial for the RE-20 I don't know what is!
 
Herm said:
Nice recording and tune. A little long for me but Nice.
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/shrugs/ Don't listen to the whole thing! My point is that a nice dynamic is every bit as desirable (for the right voice)as a fine condenser.
 
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antichef said:
I have a Digital MPA (essentially the same thing with A/D) also with different tubes, and it works great with the SM7b, especially with the input impedance turned most of the way up. Very nice combination.
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looks like SM7b it is, thanks everyone. Some place is offering me 320 for the unit and I can try it for a certain amount of time to see if I like it :)... so I'll just get one and test it out :)
 
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