Do Condenser Mic work like dynamic one if the gain is too low?

A

Amr Makki

Member
Hi everybody, I am recording vocal and classical guitar at the same time with Scarlet Solo using condenser mic, whatever I do, my voice is lower than the guitar sound, and as I recording at home, i decided to buy a dynamic microphone, thought that it is less sensitive to the noise and will record my voice higher than the guitar, and if I need to make the guitar sound higher I would use the fishman pickup that I have on my guitar, my question is " Do I need to buy a dynamic mic or it would be the same if I just turn the gain down of the condensor mic"

i record the rhythm separately and then the vocal but I am not fine with that.

Thank you, I searched a lot before posting a new thread but could not find an answer for my question.
 
It is loudest at the capsule wins Type of mic doesn't figure in with regard to the balance of sources.
Something softer can 'win -if it's the closest.
Polar pattern can be a factor some -i.e. if one is well into the less sensitive direction.

Given similar polar patterns, and frequency responses, capsule type comes in less, or little at all.
 
vocal and classical guitar at the same time
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Consider;
Are you singing softly. Put some more energy into the voice.
Can you get some extra distance- face from guitar? (sitting?, sit up straight, don't hunch over'
How are you doing it now? And where have you placed the mic?
 
Thank you for replying, I tried different positions, get the mic close to my mouth far from the guitar but it still not enough, my question is , do condenser mic give the same results as dynamic mic if the gain is low, I just don't want to buy dynamic mic if the condenser mic work as dynamic with low gain, I hope that you understand my bad language.
 
Thank you for replying, I tried different positions, get the mic close to my mouth far from the guitar but it still not enough, my question is , do condenser mic give the same results as dynamic mic if the gain is low, I just don't want to buy dynamic mic if the condenser mic work as dynamic with low gain, I hope that you understand my bad language.
 
Read it ..a few times. Let it sink in.

And 'gain effects everything the same -raises everything up or down-
Their 'loud/soft relationships do not change.

One might wonder how/why a mic 'close to the mouth', and still the guitar is too loud?
 
Mix's right.

If you buy a more sensitive microphone it will hear everything better...Not just your voice.

If you move a microphone closer to your face it will hear your voice better. ;)
 
I just thought, maybe should ask 1) what mic?, 2) might it be an omni directional? (while that still wouldn't explain everything), and last 3) are you certain you are singing into the correct side, or end of the mic?
 
Amr Makki said:
Thank you for replying, I tried different positions, get the mic close to my mouth far from the guitar but it still not enough, my question is , do condenser mic give the same results as dynamic mic if the gain is low, I just don't want to buy dynamic mic if the condenser mic work as dynamic with low gain, I hope that you understand my bad language.
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Then your voice is obviously very soft. Maybe voice lessons? Or back to the recording guitar first,then vocals after (which is the preferred way for mixing purposes).
 
A clip of your voice mic might be useful to get an idea of your expectations.
There'll always be some amount of bleed, no matter what you do.
 
Amr Makki said:
Hi everybody, I am recording vocal and classical guitar at the same time with Scarlet Solo using condenser mic, whatever I do, my voice is lower than the guitar sound, and as I recording at home, i decided to buy a dynamic microphone, thought that it is less sensitive to the noise and will record my voice higher than the guitar, and if I need to make the guitar sound higher I would use the fishman pickup that I have on my guitar, my question is " Do I need to buy a dynamic mic or it would be the same if I just turn the gain down of the condensor mic"

i record the rhythm separately and then the vocal but I am not fine with that.

Thank you, I searched a lot before posting a new thread but could not find an answer for my question.
Click to expand...

You state you dont want to record separate....so... Dynamic with the Scarlett compressor going in- Medium Squeeze will help separation.

The issue again is the soft voice, you might need a outboard preamp for your soft vocal + dynamic.
 
The answer to your question is yes. A dynamic Mic will have the same problem, because the problem isn't the Mic.

If you are recording with only one Mic, your problem is the guitar is much louder than your vocal. That is a performance problem that can't really be fixed with Mic positioning. The only thing that a dynamic Mic could let you do is get it so close to your mouth that the guitar couldn't possibly be louder. But that causes other problems, and is more of a live thing than a studio thing.

Bottom line, if you place the Mic 4 feet in front of you and perform the song and the guitar is drowning out the vocal, you aren't singing loud enough.
 
Thank you all for helping, yes I am sure that I tried different positions, and got closed to the mic, *the front of it not the back* and sing to the centre and little above, the mic is SCARLET STUDIO CM25, I am sure the mic is fine, I have this problem especially with low notes, I mean is it worth to try dynamic microphone, or you don't think that would make any difference?
 
Farview said:
The answer to your question is yes. A dynamic Mic will have the same problem, because the problem isn't the Mic.

If you are recording with only one Mic, your problem is the guitar is much louder than your vocal. That is a performance problem that can't really be fixed with Mic positioning. The only thing that a dynamic Mic could let you do is get it so close to your mouth that the guitar couldn't possibly be louder. But that causes other problems, and is more of a live thing than a studio thing.

Bottom line, if you place the Mic 4 feet in front of you and perform the song and the guitar is drowning out the vocal, you aren't singing loud enough.
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or playing too loud...

singing louder might not be the point, if its a soft voice naturally then capturing that is the challenge of the engineer.
if I cant hear my soft acoustic guitar picking it wouldnt be the same to play louder or plug it into a Marshall stack.

recording a soft voice might be the challenge so doing that would be a more sensitive mic possibly from the mic locker. however thats going to introduce problems too like guitar bleeding in and the room noises.

if Adele came in an wanted to do a whisper soft vocal track song with classical guitar piece.....telling her to sing louder might work? might not... :confused:

using the Fishman on the classical seems to be ok....maybe its as simple as a good headphone mix?
or just put the condenser closer to the mouth and mix it in the DAW....
 
Amr Makki said:
Thank you all for helping, yes I am sure that I tried different positions, and got closed to the mic, *the front of it not the back* and sing to the centre and little above, the mic is SCARLET STUDIO CM25, I am sure the mic is fine, I have this problem especially with low notes, I mean is it worth to try dynamic microphone, or you don't think that would make any difference?
Click to expand...
That is a side address mic. You need to be singing into the front of it, not the top.

That could be the whole problem. If you are singing into the top end, chances are, you have the mic pointed right at the guitar while you are singing into a dead zone.
 
CoolCat said:
or playing too loud...

singing louder might not be the point, if its a soft voice naturally then capturing that is the challenge of the engineer.
if I cant hear my soft acoustic guitar picking it wouldnt be the same to play louder or plug it into a Marshall stack.

recording a soft voice might be the challenge so doing that would be a more sensitive mic possibly from the mic locker. however thats going to introduce problems too like guitar bleeding in and the room noises.

if Adele came in an wanted to do a whisper soft vocal track song with classical guitar piece.....telling her to sing louder might work? might not... :confused:

using the Fishman on the classical seems to be ok....maybe its as simple as a good headphone mix?
or just put the condenser closer to the mouth and mix it in the DAW....
Click to expand...

He is recording this with one mic. If that is the case, it is imperative that the dynamics of the performance have to be right. Yes, either the guitar is too loud or the vocals are too quiet. However, I have never heard a classical guitar that was so loud that it was drowning out a vocal. Something is waaaay out of whack.
 
Farview said:
He is recording this with one mic. If that is the case, it is imperative that the dynamics of the performance have to be right. Yes, either the guitar is too loud or the vocals are too quiet. However, I have never heard a classical guitar that was so loud that it was drowning out a vocal. Something is waaaay out of whack.
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Thank you
 
CoolCat said:
You state you dont want to record separate....so... Dynamic with the Scarlett compressor going in- Medium Squeeze will help separation.

The issue again is the soft voice, you might need a outboard preamp for your soft vocal + dynamic.
Click to expand...
I don't understand.
Why..? Compression? Reducing dynamic range makes a problem like this worse.
And you're buying in to the 'dynamic mic' being a solution?
 
Amr Makki said:
Hi everybody, I am recording vocal and classical guitar at the same time with Scarlet Solo using condenser mic, whatever I do, my voice is lower than the guitar sound, and as I recording at home, i decided to buy a dynamic microphone, thought that it is less sensitive to the noise and will record my voice higher than the guitar, and if I need to make the guitar sound higher I would use the fishman pickup that I have on my guitar, my question is " Do I need to buy a dynamic mic or it would be the same if I just turn the gain down of the condensor mic"

i record the rhythm separately and then the vocal but I am not fine with that.

Thank you, I searched a lot before posting a new thread but could not find an answer for my question.
Click to expand...
To echo what others have said, a different microphone or type of microphone (alone) will not fix an imbalance in the record level between your voice and guitar.

I think a lot of us are struggling a little bit to understand how it could be so very different that a small change of the gain or record level will not take care of that difference.

Can you post a picture of how you place the microphone for recording the guitar, and how you place it to record voice? If you want to do both at the same time, you, of course, will need to experiment with positions to record both, but if you are recording the guitar and voice at the same time, then I would say a second microphone just for your voice will help make the balancing easier, because you'll have a separate track recorded that is primarily voice; i.e., you'll be able to "fix it in the mix," something you cannot do when trying to do both with a single mic.

There are a couple blogs about recording guitar and voice with both a single and two mic setup at The Recording Revolution blog - you might look at those to see how he does it.

But, I'd like to see (and possibly hear) what you are doing.
 
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