distortion on on vocals

S

sathyan

New member
I'm having a problem with distortion on vocal tracks. Loud passages become distorted. The only way I've been able to mitigate this is to turn down the pre input level sensitivity. But then the recording is very quiet and distortion appears when I digitally amplify the track in the mix later (CEP).

The microphone is Studio Projects B1, protected by a pop filter, placed 24" from the vocalist. I've tried connecting this two ways
1. via a preamp (Behringer MIC100)
2. direct to mixer
The mixer is Yamaha MG10/2. Then the signal goes into the PC

Direct to mixer is better but still has some distortion.

Any suggestions?
 
i'd say maybe adjust your EQ..personally i've found that if you take a little less mid and turn down the high and mess around in that area you'll find less distortion..but the best way in my opinion when it comes to EQ'ing is just to play around with it until you find something you like.

hope that helps
 
sathyan said:
The only way I've been able to mitigate this is to turn down the pre input level sensitivity.
Click to expand...


That's the correct way of doing it.


But then the recording is very quiet and distortion appears when I digitally amplify the track in the mix later (CEP).
Click to expand...

What you need to do is compress and limit the vocal track so that you can jack up it's volume without putting it in danger of clipping on the loud parts.
 
could the low level have anything to do with the fact that your mic is two feet away from the vocalist?
 
Ahh, I see I'm not the only one who thinks so. Usually my mic is no farther away than 6" (with the occasional exception) from the vocalist.
 
Wouldn't going from preamp to mixer to soundcard possibly introduce noise due to unnecessary (and possibly improper) gain staging? I would think you'd want to go from the preamp directly into the soundcard.
 
quote:Originally posted by sathyan
Chessrock,

Can you recommend a compressor?

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7...so=asc/sc=price

Are any of the $1-200 units decent?

thanks



You might also try a plugin compressor like on of these.

That's what I use instead of a hardware compressor. It's worth a try if your recording program will run VST plugins.

Blessings, Terry



Terry,

I use CoolEdit Pro 1.2 which does not support VST but does support DirectX. There is a compressor built in that does 2:1, 3:1 and 4:1. I will try that at my next recording session. Do you know of a primer on compression? (Web preferred, book OK)
Is there a problem doing compression after A/D?

Chessrock,

I tried a bass guitar compressor (which one of my band mates happened to have) in the mixer insert but it was very noisy.
Hopefully the RNC would be more transparent.


All,

In case I have erroneously described the problem, please listen to some of the recordings http://inkmusic.org/listen.html
"Somebody Else" is particularly badly distorted but many of these tracks have problems.


thanks
Sathyan
 
It seems to me you would want to try to isolate the problem before purchasing solutions that may not address it. To begin with I agree the vocalist needs to be closer to the mic. If there is clipping with the mic 24" away then the problem will not be solved by a compressor. I would think since you need to be pretty close to the mic to push a compressor.

The most obvious problem would be clipping at one or more stages in your signal and I would check that first. Is your mixer putting out a clean signal? What does it sound like when you send the output from the mixer either to headphones or to a monitor (not via your soundcard)? If it's still distorted, either your input gain is too high or your microphone is faulty or the eq is distorting. Does flattening the eq stop the problem? If so, your input gain needs to drop somewhat since you're oveloading your eq circuits. (Don't forget, boosting eq raises the signal level at specific frequencies.) I recently tried to track down a clipping signal on a snare drum I was recording and after wasting quite a bit of time scratching my head, found that the mic on the snare had blown!

If the signal is clean at this stage, then the problem is further downstream and try to check recording to your soundcard from a different source and see if you can replicate the problem. It could be the audio level settings in your PC (try experiment with different levels) and also make sure you're not using a mic input for the output from your mixer -- even though you are using the mic input to your mixer, your mixer is sending a line signal to the PC.

If you tried all this and I've oversimplified the problem, my apologies! Just trying to rule out some of the obvious problems.
 
I've never used Cool Edit. Does it have a recording VU meter? IF so, when you record, is it showing that you are clipping? If not, then you are probably overdriving your preamp. try turning down the gain until your highest peaks are around -3dB. By adding compression in CE you should be able to bring up the quieter passages with out raising the louder ones too much. That's what a compressor does. I would think the one in CE will do this just fine, but someone who runs CE can say for sure.

Blessings, Terry
 
sathyan said:
I'm having a problem with distortion on vocal tracks. Loud passages become distorted. The only way I've been able to mitigate this is to turn down the pre input level sensitivity. But then the recording is very quiet and distortion appears when I digitally amplify the track in the mix later (CEP).

The microphone is Studio Projects B1, protected by a pop filter, placed 24" from the vocalist. I've tried connecting this two ways
1. via a preamp (Behringer MIC100)
2. direct to mixer
The mixer is Yamaha MG10/2. Then the signal goes into the PC

Direct to mixer is better but still has some distortion.

Any suggestions?
Click to expand...
Use a compressor, and maybe try a better mic and preamp.
 
Not sure that's particularly helpful, the equipment is clearly good enough to make a recording without clipping if it's all working and set up correctly!

Tapehead's right - find where the noise is coming from and take it from there. Chances are it's something quite straightforward (man, I make mistakes like this all the time!).
 
I can tell you about an experience I had. I have a fairly strong voice. I usually sing with a bit of dynamics. I used to set my levels as high as I could when recording, thinking this would keep noise levels down. I'd do a run through and watch the VU levels in N-Track so I could get as close to 0 dB as possible. Then I'd record and sooner or later, THWACK, I'd hit it too hard and clip. I asked around and a few folks suggested running a compressor between my pre and my soundcard. So I started doing that. Seemed to fix the problem. Then one day I recorded a song and when listening to the recording, I keep hearing distortion. I check my levels and the highest peak is -3dB. So I record it again and watch my VU levels in N-Track real closely and I do not exceed 0 dB. still the distortion. So I record again but this time I watch the VU's on my DMP3. Aha, The DMP3 is clipping. It's not showing in N-track because the compressor is catching it before it gets to the sound card. So, I stopped using a compressor between the pre and soundcard. I just lowere the levels a bit more and then run a compressor plugin on the wave file.

Blessings, Terry
 
Just a thought: Have you cleaned your connections lately?

If yes, then nevermind. If no, try that. You'd be surprised how many problems are solved by cleaning connections every now and then.

Like I said, just a thought.
 
still4given said:
I can tell you about an experience I had. I have a fairly strong voice. I usually sing with a bit of dynamics. I used to set my levels as high as I could when recording, thinking this would keep noise levels down. I'd do a run through and watch the VU levels in N-Track so I could get as close to 0 dB as possible. Then I'd record and sooner or later, THWACK, I'd hit it too hard and clip. I asked around and a few folks suggested running a compressor between my pre and my soundcard. So I started doing that. Seemed to fix the problem. Then one day I recorded a song and when listening to the recording, I keep hearing distortion. I check my levels and the highest peak is -3dB. So I record it again and watch my VU levels in N-Track real closely and I do not exceed 0 dB. still the distortion. So I record again but this time I watch the VU's on my DMP3. Aha, The DMP3 is clipping. It's not showing in N-track because the compressor is catching it before it gets to the sound card. So, I stopped using a compressor between the pre and soundcard. I just lowere the levels a bit more and then run a compressor plugin on the wave file.

Blessings, Terry
Click to expand...

I've been trying to figure out where the clipping is occuring.

Using a line source (my keyboard) I tried going direct to sound card and via mixer. No clipping in either case.

Here are the levels where I get distortion when recording from the microphone:
Preamp: -12dB
Mixer: -10dB
Sound card: -18dB
All three indicators are in the "green"
That should be *plenty* of headroom.
The red "clip" lights are not being lit.



I really don't want to use a compressor being from the classical "dynamics are good school" and am not convinced that would solve the problem.



For cleaning contacts, what should I use?
 
man, that's not so simple then. can you try your mic in another pre/mixer maybe? have you tried different leads (sorry, don't mean to patronise you!)?
 
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