Kaybee Brutal
New member
What mics would be best for death metal drums
death metal mics
- Thread starter Kaybee Brutal
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TyphoidHippo
1Trillion K Platinum User
Honestly it doesn't matter at all because they're all sample replaced anyway. Any decent pair of SDCs for overheads is all you really need to be concerned with when recording drums for any kind of metal. Close mics are almost never actually used beyond triggering something else.
...deja vu, lol
...deja vu, lol
Tomm Williams
New member
I would think the same drum mics one would use for any accurate recording. That being said, it still leaves a lot of opinion as to what that might be. My set-up (live) is Senn 604's on toms, EV 868 on floor, Heil PR40 on kick, AKG 391's on OH, Beyer M201 on hi-hat, and Beta 57 on snare. I specify "live" as I really don't record. I cruise this site as folks here are REALLY into their mics which isn't seen in other forums. I'm sure you'll get some more input shortly.
jimmys69
MOODerator
Tomm Williams
New member
As I stated, I'm not really a recording guy so much, I mainly use this forum to learn about different mics so I have to ask. If you're triggering samples, what's the point? Not asking to be a PITA but don't you want to hear YOUR drums, not somebody else's? I don't understand the reasoning behind this.
TyphoidHippo
1Trillion K Platinum User
And a lot of people don't understand the reasoning behind defining which tools and instruments can be used to create music. No drum triggers...ok... what about keyboards that use great sounding samples of exotic pianos? Cheating? Where do you draw the line? If you really feel that way - I'd say it's only logical to question the whole concept of even recording anything, then. As you said: What's the point? Wouldn't you rather hear the band actually play the song?
See...the whole discussion is nonsensical and has been beat to death many times over here
Tomm Williams
New member
I think you missed my point----------I don't have ANY opinion on it, I'm simply asking a question as I don't understand why you would do it. What would be the situation?---bad drummer, drums, mics? etc......The discussion is hardly nonsensical if I'm trying to learn something.
TyphoidHippo
1Trillion K Platinum User
lol, ok. Well we had a thread here: https://homerecording.com/bbs/general-discussions/recording-techniques/drum-recording-help-344402/ where Jimmy and Greg give some really good explanations about why samples are usually used for metal. More reasons exist that aren't necessarily specific to metal, and they don't necessarily have to revolve around something being "bad", so much as how it's just "different". There's a lot of recordings out there that have samples of truly bizarre percussive sounds blended with the drums, which may or may not have been sound-replaced themselves (a basketball being slammed into a concrete floor comes to mind). There's no other way to do some of that kind of stuff than using some kind of sample-replacement tools.
jimmys69
MOODerator
Using a triggered sample does not necessarily equate to using someone else's drum sounds. The whole point of triggering drums in the death metal genre (any genre actually), is to be able to get the drum sounds consistent in a thick mix of mayhem. It is possible, and advised to trigger samples of the drum kit that is being recorded. You are then able to have full control of effecting/eq'ing each drum, without the bleed from other mics. It is not cheating, it is use of another tool that makes genres like 'death metal' possible to mix. The kit itself will be heard in the overhead mics, so you cant actually replace it all, unless you record like Metallica does. Nobody needs to suck that hard. It is way too much work....
I have to this day, in 25 years of recording bands, had two times ever, that a drummer had a friggen clue on how to tune his drums. If you already got that down, then you have nothing to worry about. The mic selection is not going to have that much impact on the recording. The performance will. There will still be issues getting the drums to work well in a metal style recording, without some manipulation.
You are not a PITA, and your question is valid. I will repeat; Triggering does not necessarily equate to replacement with another sample. There are however, instances where this is the best way to go. Genre and song dependent, there is no right way. Your ears are the only determining factor.
Tomm Williams
New member
Exactly the info I was asking for-------thank you
I do sound support for TONS of live shows - as many as fifteen/twenty a month - and it is I find the kick that most drummers have fault with regarding tuning.
I have a sample generator in my rack just for this occasion yet I will end up mixing both the real sound and a favorite sample of a kick for the best of both worlds.
I have a sample generator in my rack just for this occasion yet I will end up mixing both the real sound and a favorite sample of a kick for the best of both worlds.
Farview
Well-known member
There are a few reasons for this.
1. Death metal drums tend to be larger than life, very bright, and have very little decay. By the time you EQ the drums to sound like this, the cymbals bleed is really loud and crappy sounding.
2. The faster a drummer plays, the less force the can hit the drum with. when you don't hit a drum with a certain amount of force, you lose the attack and e d up with only resonance...exactly the opposite of what is needed to cut through a wall of guitars.
3. To cut through a wall of guitars the dynamics have to be more consistent than most drummers can manage at those speeds.
The death metal drum sounds can be gotten using real drums with a lot of EQ and compression, which is where the samples come from. A lot of times sampling is a time saving method.
That's not to say that there are not drummers out there with the speed and power to pull it off, but the Gus that can are few and far between. Jason Bittner is one of those guys.
1. Death metal drums tend to be larger than life, very bright, and have very little decay. By the time you EQ the drums to sound like this, the cymbals bleed is really loud and crappy sounding.
2. The faster a drummer plays, the less force the can hit the drum with. when you don't hit a drum with a certain amount of force, you lose the attack and e d up with only resonance...exactly the opposite of what is needed to cut through a wall of guitars.
3. To cut through a wall of guitars the dynamics have to be more consistent than most drummers can manage at those speeds.
The death metal drum sounds can be gotten using real drums with a lot of EQ and compression, which is where the samples come from. A lot of times sampling is a time saving method.
That's not to say that there are not drummers out there with the speed and power to pull it off, but the Gus that can are few and far between. Jason Bittner is one of those guys.
Tomm Williams
New member
Would any of you say that using samples for metal is more common than other genres? (for the stated reasons)
Farview
Well-known member
No. Just about anything that has any big production value will at least have some sample enhancement. This sort of thing has been going on since the late 70's - early 80's. We all have been listening to it for 30 years.
There are some obvious exceptions like Jazz, blues and other raw and organic genres, but anything mainstream has about a 90% chance of samples being used.
That being said, I have done some metal albums without using samples. It really depends on the drummer and the type of production you are trying to achieve.
jimmys69
MOODerator
Yeah, I agree. It is not always a necessity, though more often than not, triggered samples are used. It is just another tool to get drums in the right place in a mix. Again, triggers do not necessarily mean complete replacement. I like to use triggered samples of the actual kit being recorded.
Farview
Well-known member
A lot of times i will add a triggered sample to the miced snare to add what the real snare doesn't have. For example, if i have a snare with good crack and a lot of depth, but doesn't have the right amount of high end, I will add a sample that has that strainer sound to complete the snare sound that I want. The same goes for the kick.
Best reason so far!
This is good Jay - it is about the only real reason I use samples while recording.
This is good Jay - it is about the only real reason I use samples while recording.
jimmys69
MOODerator
Absolutely. There is no reason for a trigger, if the tone is right to begin with. The issue only comes up if there is something lacking in the performance, or the sound of the kit. But then, there are also some genre dependant needs, that can only be done with samples. Well, by the level that my setup is capable of.