Condenser microphone needs gain at 10 for clear signal?

I'm getting a bit older and the memory isn't working quite as well, but I did remember seeing another NT1 problem very similar to yours.....
Microphone not picking up any signal??! - Gearslutz Pro Audio Community

Where the AT2020 works I'm wondering if the power requirements of the NT1 marginally loads up the USB port to the point the USB can't provide sufficient power for the interfaces. The AT2020 only draws 2ma of current at 48v and I couldn't find a spec for current draw of the new NT1 (black version), but the old NT1 (gray version) I have is specced at 3.5ma. I wouldn't think if the new NT1 is the same current draw as the old it would cause an issue.

I bought one of these recently ... X-DRAGON USB 2.0 Digital Multimeter Power Meter Tester Current and Voltage Monitor, Test Speed of Chargers, Cables, Capacity of Power Banks (7 Modes Monitor, dual USB ports, Accuracy) - - Amazon.com as a tool to troubleshoot USB power problems. It might be a worthwhile purchase to see what your USB voltage is doing with the interface and NT1. I did have an older computer that couldn't provide enough USB juice for a Tascam US-144mkii with a phantom powered mic plugged in and as a workaround I used preamp with phantom power in front of it.
 
That's exactly what I thought too. Too much to have two faulty mics, but the Roles do expect the full phantom voltage and current, and all these interfaces that regenerate 48V from a 5V supply have troubles with thirsty mics of the traditional type. Electret condensers rarely need much current. I have some old Oktava 319 mics that struggle on a Scarlett - drawing too much power and then the Scarlett suffers by putting data bus noise onto the audio. The Scarlett works fine with my other mics, but not the Russian ones. I'd bet the current demand is too high and the supply voltage drops right down. You need to find somebody with a different phantom powered device and try it on there.
 
Good info from [MENTION=190964]arcaxis[/MENTION] and [MENTION=178786]rob aylestone[/MENTION] - probably need to add to debugging list to substitute a *powered* AI when testing one that is bus powered as a point of failure. I keep forgetting about that, since my AIs have had 4 inputs for a while and only work plugged in.

Surprisingly, my Zoom 6, running on a USB power pack, can support 4 phantom powered mics w/o problem, though I only ever had one RØDE (NTG1 - shotgun version of the NT1?) plugged in, and it was fine.

P.S. It occurred to me that testing the AI on a different computer and being sure to plug directly into a USB port, not via a hub, might be worth trying, in case it's the computer's USB power that's the issue.
 
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keith.rogers said:
P.S. It occurred to me that testing the AI on a different computer and being sure to plug directly into a USB port, not via a hub, might be worth trying, in case it's the computer's USB power that's the issue.
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I actually could power my old US-144mkii from a powered hub and it worked. The preamp with phantom just was a better way to go for me and provided some added gain for a couple of dynamic mics I have. Powered hubs haven't worked properly in a few instances I've read.
 
arcaxis said:
I'm getting a bit older and the memory isn't working quite as well, but I did remember seeing another NT1 problem very similar to yours.....
Microphone not picking up any signal??! - Gearslutz Pro Audio Community

Where the AT2020 works I'm wondering if the power requirements of the NT1 marginally loads up the USB port to the point the USB can't provide sufficient power for the interfaces. The AT2020 only draws 2ma of current at 48v and I couldn't find a spec for current draw of the new NT1 (black version), but the old NT1 (gray version) I have is specced at 3.5ma. I wouldn't think if the new NT1 is the same current draw as the old it would cause an issue.

I bought one of these recently ... X-DRAGON USB 2.0 Digital Multimeter Power Meter Tester Current and Voltage Monitor, Test Speed of Chargers, Cables, Capacity of Power Banks (7 Modes Monitor, dual USB ports, Accuracy) - - Amazon.com as a tool to troubleshoot USB power problems. It might be a worthwhile purchase to see what your USB voltage is doing with the interface and NT1. I did have an older computer that couldn't provide enough USB juice for a Tascam US-144mkii with a phantom powered mic plugged in and as a workaround I used preamp with phantom power in front of it.
Click to expand...
His problem sounded similar to what I was experiencing but my NT1 wasn't able to get rid of the noise and pick up audio even though I tested it on 3 different PCs. They are all running Windows 10. No idea if that has anything to do with it. The AT2020 did work with all machines but needed the gain up near 90% to get a signal of -12 to -6 with both the Scarlett 2i2 1st gen and the Audient ID4. Maybe that's normal though. I was speaking at a normal conversationish volume.

I might try out a dynamic microphone instead with a cloudlifter since the price would still be similar to an NT1 and might work out since I'll mainly be using it for streaming/gaming purposes and occasionally for rap vocals or acoustic guitar in an untreated room. Might have the same issues though since the cloud lifter would use phantom power as well?

I don't want to have to go back to USB mics!
 
[MENTION=196982]keith.rogers[/MENTION] That sounds like what's happening with the NT1 I have. I've seen someone on YouTube with the exact setup I have and they didn't seem to be having any issues though. NT1 into and ID4 into a USB port. I used an AT4040 a few years ago into my Scarlett 2i2 and didnt have this issue. Not sure anymore. I'm not too experienced with troubleshooting this stuff so I'm not sure what to do next. I can't really spend more than I have on the NT1 and ID4 if I need to add a preamp.
 
The Rode NT1 is one of the quietest microphones on the market. I have 2 of them which I use in almost every session and never have had to turn the gain up all the way. What software are you using them with?
 
[MENTION=195765]StudioMicZone[/MENTION] What are you plugging them into? I think my issues are at a hardware level.
But if you're curious, I've tested with with Audacity, Reaper for DAW and with Discord, and Mumble.
 
The AT2020 did work with all machines but needed the gain up near 90% to get a signal of -12 to -6 with both the Scarlett 2i2 1st gen and the Audient ID4.
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This sounds really off. Shouldn't need the gain that high unless you're pretty far from the mic. The AT2020 actually is less sensitive (less output) than the NT1.

Don't know if was asked yet or if it makes a difference, are your USB ports USB3.0?
 
I have an original Rode NT1, the newer black NT1, and an NT1A. They go into a Presonus interface, and for general vocals, gain for all of them is at around 2 'clock. Getting a decent level has never been a problem for me. I don't think the problem is exclusive to the mike, but, like others think, maybe it's the phantom current that some interfaces deliver.

I wonder if the Scarlet has an indicator of level getting into it. The presonus doesn't, but it does have a clip indicator. You should be able to trigger this if you are getting good levels into the interfrace.
 
arcaxis said:
This sounds really off. Shouldn't need the gain that high unless you're pretty far from the mic. The AT2020 actually is less sensitive (less output) than the NT1.

Don't know if was asked yet or if it makes a difference, are your USB ports USB3.0?
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Okay then something is definitely off then if that isn't normal. Well, with my AT2020, I needed about 80-90% gain to get a signal of -12 to -6. However, it was clean and didn't have any noise or static like how my NT1 was recording/adding.

I'm not sure about my desktop. I think most of the ports on it are USB 3.0 I plugged my interface into 3 different ports but didn't check to see which version they were since I wasn't checking for that. On my laptop, it only has one USB port and it's 3.0 so it was definitely plugged into USB 3.0 on that.
 
gecko zzed said:
I have an original Rode NT1, the newer black NT1, and an NT1A. They go into a Presonus interface, and for general vocals, gain for all of them is at around 2 'clock. Getting a decent level has never been a problem for me. I don't think the problem is exclusive to the mike, but, like others think, maybe it's the phantom current that some interfaces deliver.

I wonder if the Scarlet has an indicator of level getting into it. The presonus doesn't, but it does have a clip indicator. You should be able to trigger this if you are getting good levels into the interfrace.
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Oh I see. Well if I'm going to assume that the mic itself isn't the issue, then I did test it with 3 different interfaces. A Scarlett Solo, (Which I returned after the first NT1 because I thought the interface was the issue.) A Scarlett 2i2 and the Audient ID4 that I'm currently using. The Scarlett's have an indicator on them. They light up green or red if clipping. They would only go green and acknowledge a signal was present at all until the gain was like 80-90% with the Rode NT1 though. The Audient ID4 has a similar indicator. I'm completely stumped then. My AT2020 also needs the gain at like 4 or 5 O'clock or like 8.0 to 9.5ish out of 10 to get a clean signal. The AT2020 isn't adding noise and static at all even at that high gain like the NT1 is adding even at a low gain setting though.
 
Have you tried with a plain old dynamic mike?

And we're probably going over old ground, but I assume you've tried different leads?
 
Mark, good call on the phantom power issue and thanks for the link to that USB power meter! Ordered one.

However, checking USB load voltage probably won't tell you squat about the spook juice situation. My otherwise fabulous NI KA6 has a pretty feeble 48V supply. I built a breakout/extra USB supply system and found USB voltage DID NOT DROP when phantom power was switched on and loaded up. Also, feeding in extra USB juice did nothing to restore phantom power voltage. Conclusion? The 5-48V converter is current limited so the rest of the AI is not starved.

Simplest way to check 48V (it won't be BTW) is to dismantle an XLR, at the mic for preff' and check pins 2/3 to pin 1. DO NOT WORRY noobs! It will NOT kill you! Doubt you would even feel 48V unless you have very girly skin.

The voltage you measure will give an indication of the current drawn. Assuming an off load 48V, Ohms Law where R = 3k4.

Dave.
 
I measured the phantom power current drain of my Rode NT1 (new version) when powered from both my Sound Devices USB Pre, and from my Tascam DR100.

Both devices supply 'standard' 48 V phantom power through 6.8K resistors in each leg .. (and both devices actually do supply 48V (+/- 1V) off load)

This falls to between 26V and 27V on load, so each 'leg' is supplying 3mA to the NT1.... So the mic draws 6mA (3mA x 2) from a 48V phantom supply.

The mic can also be powered from 24V phantom power... and the only version I have of that is on my Behringer Xenyx1002b... where the spec lists the phantom voltage as 23V.

Sadly it doesn't list the value of the resistors feeding the supply. Assuming they're 'standard' 1.2k 24V phantom power resistors, then the actual measured 'on load' voltage of 16V suggests the NT1 may draw a bit more current - around 8mA (4mA x 2) at 24V... so not a huge extra current drain.

In all cases the mic seems to have similar gain and noise levels... (the low noise level from this mic is pretty impressive!)....

In addition, the mic doesn't suddenly 'collapse in a heap' once the phantom power is turned off... it seems to continue working pretty well - down to quite a low voltage.
It's difficult to be precise on gain changes and rising noise levels with a falling supply voltage, but it doesn't give me the impression of being a particularly 'fussy' microphone when it comes to phantom power?....
 
I was looking at GC used mics yesterday and used the RODE filter.

NT1 was the noticeable quantity of Rode mics in the used section. :confused:
poor QC....possibly. high volume. new users with entry level stuff. (lower cost stuff) upgrading and trading them in?

NTK gets a lot of good reps, Classic 2 was on Adeles Rollin in the Deep massive play.

bad solder inside the mic pcb?
 
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It is tempting to think the mike is at fault (and it may well be), but OP is having similar difficulties with other mikes. And other interfaces.
 
I thought he mentioned the AT2020 worked?

So eliminated:
3 interfaces,
different cables
Phantom power likely fine

try more mics?
AT2020? kind of works better? try another higher output mic.....get something with 30mv/pa?

maybe take the mic to another location and plug it in? or just change it out for another NT1 if possible.
anything mass produced will have some issues, I have 2qty Shure 57 here that dont work...and they are about indestructible.
 
Gorilla_ said:
[MENTION=196982]keith.rogers[/MENTION] That sounds like what's happening with the NT1 I have. I've seen someone on YouTube with the exact setup I have and they didn't seem to be having any issues though. NT1 into and ID4 into a USB port. I used an AT4040 a few years ago into my Scarlett 2i2 and didnt have this issue. Not sure anymore. I'm not too experienced with troubleshooting this stuff so I'm not sure what to do next. I can't really spend more than I have on the NT1 and ID4 if I need to add a preamp.
Click to expand...

even if you grabbed a ART MP single,, those are cheap $30 used, they can be hit and miss for noise but if you get a good one they can do really well.

do you have anyone that can loan you a 3rd mic? hopefully a higher output mic and a 3rd cable...I wouldnt go to a dynamic just yet because those often need even more gain and if the interface is just weak on gain its going to add to the problem. A lot of people buy 58's and SM7 and find out they need an outboard preamp to get it to sound better.

that NT1 should have plenty of output though....25mv/pa geeez....SM7/58 are like 1.5mv/pa....my KSM LDC are 14mv/pa and my interface gain knob is around 12oclock to 2.

ROEDE NT1-A | RecordingHacks.com

its a head scratcher for sure!
 
Ok . . . how about taking the NT1 elsewhere? Maybe to the store where all the interfaces are coming from. And check it there.
 
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