Classic Rock band Live Dynamic Vocal Mic's Advise

iwanarock

Rocking Member
First I am a guitar player in a 4 piece Classic Rock band. 1 male guitar player, 1 male bass Player, 1 Male Drummer, 1 Female Lead vocalist. Myself, the bass player and drummer only do harmonies. 90% of all the vocals are done by me female lead singer.

We cover a lot of classic rock but an example of the bands we cover are Aerosmith, Benetar, Stones, Green Day, Zeppelin, Queen, Stones, Grand Funk, Who, Ozzy, Sabbath, Rush, 3 Doors Down, SKynyrd, Black Crowes, Bad Company, Cheap Trick, Beatles, Heart, Joe Walsh, Thin Lizzy.

We are about to buy some additional mic's for live vocal use. We currently use two Shure Sm58's, one SM57, and my Female lead singer also uses a wireless Audio Technica Digital Reference DR-2000. The wireless mic is probably the most feedback prone of any of them, depending on the venue we play. I tried to research the quality of that Mic on line and found little mention of it. The Mic says Audio Technica on it but has no other model number. So I don't even how good/bad that mic is, but she sounds pretty good thru the mic, minus the feedback issues, she also use a SM58 at times during our gigs. She has had the wireless mic for a few years.

After doing a search here and reading hundreds of posts and on a few other web forums like Sweetwater on Microphones I came away with the following list of mic's to consider:

Shure SM58, 57
Shure Beta 58A, 57A
Sennheiser e835, e845, e865
Audix OM-5, OM6, OM7

After lots of reading and reviews I have come to the conclusion that for Live vocal performance that probably the Shure Beta 58A or the Sennheiser e835 or e845 are probably a good step up. But the research did generate a few questions that never seemed to be asked.

1) The e835 seems to be Sennhesier answer to the shure Sm58. Can anyone comment of if the e835 has better gain before feedback then the SM58?

2) Don't see a ton of posts anywhere on the Sennheiser e845. My guess is that is Sennheiser answer to the Shure Beta 58A. But I have not seen a lot of comparisons of these two mic's and which would be better suited in a Live rock band setting?

3) Is the Sennheiser e845 worth the additional $40 as compared the e835? Does the e845 have better gain before feedback then the e835 and do you lose some tonal qualities between the two.

4) I have heard many people say the prefer the Sennheiser e835 for female vocals over the SM58, would you also prefer/recommend it over the Shure Beta 58A.

5) How do the Shure Beta 58A vs the Sennhesier e835 compare from a gain before feedback perspective. How does the e845 compare?

6) I have heard many positive but also many negative things reference the Audix Om-5, OM6, OM7. But from a vocal standpoint and Feedback standpoint I have heard more negative. So at the moment I am ruling them out. I do have a Audix I5 that I mic my guitar cab with and like it, but I am not getting a good feeling about them for Live vocals use. Anyone Disagree?

7) Anyone have any experience or knowledge of the Audio Technica digital Reference DR-2000 series of wireless mic's and what kind of quality the mic is. Should I look to upgrade the female lead Vocalist wireless mic as well and if so what kind of Wireless Mic would you recommend? She will still probably use both a wired and wireless mic when we perform.

8) I didn't really mention the Sennheiser e865. That is probably $110 more then the e845 or $150 mor then e835. I would consider this for my lead vocalist for when she is wired if any one feels strongly that this is much better mic then the e835 or e845 or Shure Beta 58A for live vocal usage?

9) Finally I am thinking of buying a Crown CM311A Headset Mic for my drummer to use. I know there are some up/and downs to be aware of when it comes to using a Headset mic. Anyone use one of these and do they have good gain before feedback.

Sorry for the long post and I know the best way is try all the mic's with everyone voice, but getting my band here for band practice on the same day has its challenges, much less a trip to a local music store. So any input on any of my questions above would be greatly appreciated.
 
After lots of reading and reviews I have come to the conclusion that for Live vocal performance that probably the Shure Beta 58A or the Sennheiser e835 or e845 are probably a good step up. But the research did generate a few questions that never seemed to be asked.


your conclusion is fine, audix is one more to consider, don't recall the number but somebody will pipe up.

Why all the concern about feedback? You guys are probably a little loud eh?
The sehhy's are better at feedback rejection but it's pretty negligible.



The Senny 865 is a condenser.
 
Has she had the chance to audition each of the mics your considering? They are all widely avail at most music stores. I'd try them all out at a shop and determine which suits her voice best.

If that's not possible lean towards the Sennheiser e835 or e845.
 
Two answer you questions so far:

Big Kenny yes we can be loud we have quite a bit of power both our Bass/ Guitar amps and the PA system are farily powerful. The reason for the feedback concerns is not that we have had a lot of issue with it, but if we upgrade our bands mic's, it just make sense to me that we consider maxium gain before feedback mic capabilities. As I said my biggest concern is lead singers current wireless mic, it is the most feedback prone of the mic we use, certainly seems more feedback prone then the SM58/57's. My question is if the e835 or e845 are both steps up over SM58, and if ranked where would the Beta 58A fall compared to the e835, e845 for Rock vocals.

Nuemes I can get the lead singer to try a few out at music stores and I certainly intend to do that, but nothing is like plugging it into our PA and trying it which I can't bring to a music store. Again she like to go wireless most of the time and mingels in the crowd quite a bit. The other mic will be upgrade for me, bass player and drummer from SM58 or SM57 potentially.
 
EV's guys ...... that's the ticket for live sound. I've been using several N/D 757 ( I might have that number wrong) for about 10 years now ..... hotter than the Beta 58 ..... VERY resistant to feedback ...... and a big full sound with some sparkle on the top end. And they're close to indestuctable
Not too expensive either ...... you really should consider one of the Neodymium line ..... get the ones that have freq response up to around 18k ..... great sound. They make one that's limited in the high end to around 15k so it's super feedback resistant but it doesn't have quite the sound that the 757 does.
 
I don't care for wireless mics at all. After trying several we concluded that they all have problems. Some of them compress the signal which just adds to the feedback issue. Some of them were just flat out noisy. Maybe just use the wireless mic when you are out crowdsurfing, keep it down a little or carve a hole in it with an eq then shut it down and go back to a wired mic?

As to which one will sound best? You have to try them out to match them with the voice.
We just bought an sm7b for our vocalist and it's so much better than any of the 58s or 57s etc. A huge step up in sound quality. It doesn't seem to feedback until it is really pushed. But it's not really a crowd surfing mic either.
 
I agree with most of the above. The SM7b trashes the rest of the lot, but it just isn't hand held, and therefore gets few style points. I like the e835 a lot, it's a good back up mic.
Consider Sennheiser md421. OK, it looks like a Srar Trek phaser, but it is a great live mic. The only problem is you'll be wanting to steal it from the singer for your guitar cab, and the drummer will be trying to steal it for snare, etc. I don't think of the e835 as an upgrade from SM58, it's just different, a sideways move, In my opinion, MD421 and SM7 are actually upgrades.
I can't tell you much about the feedback issue, but I've never done anything that would make an SM7 feed back. Oddly enough, I get very good mileage out of two discontinued AKG mics which can be found pretty cheap-D690 and D770. The D770 is just a little bright, and will cut through almost any mix. It might not be the ticket for your lady singer, but if the singer is having trouble cutting through the mix, it rocks. FWIW, I've never met a Digital Reference mic that I liked, or a wireless mic system, for that matter. Most of the classic rockers you are playing don't use them, and I think there is something to that. Why would you go to the trouble to get a perfectly good vocal mic, and then hand it over to a short range, low power FM signal? That's like making Queen into an MP3. Why don't we just throw away 20% of the sound? We didn't need it anyway. -Richie
 
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I had considered the Shure SM87 as well, but was a little concerned to put a Supercardioid condenser mic on a live stage with Rock music that at times gets loud. I know Shure Spec's say the Supercardioid pattern provides high gain-before-feedback, but the condenser part scares me on a live rock stage, perhaps it shouldn't. Anyone using one in a live in a rock setting, getting enough gain and not having feedback issues.
 
I have SM57s, E845s and OM6s. Of those, for vocal duties, I far and away prefer the OM6. The SM57 is a good instrument mic and with a foam windsock will do as a vocal mic if you haven't better alternatives. I bought 4 E845s on a whim (because I got a really good deal having them shipped from England), but have never been that impressed by them. I'd say they are a bit hotter and clearer than an SM58, but nothing to write home about. I've been giving them away to friends who need extra mics for live sound. The OM6, on the other hand, is a great live mic. I think it is especially good if you have a relatively loud sound stage. IMHO much better than an SM58.

The SM7 (in its various incarnations), the Sennheiser MD421, MD431, MD441 and the Beyer M88 are also excellent performing mics (and a cut above the others considered here), but we are generally talking more $$ for these. Of the lot, I'd give the MD431 (the "Prince" mic) and the M88 (the "Phil Collins" mic) a try. They can be hand held, while the others are really standmount mics. The M88 has substantial proximity effect, so you need to take that into account. The MD431 is an excellent mic and you should really try one if you get a chance. It has condenser like qualities (I understand that it actually has the same capsule as the MD441, but mounted for handheld use) and can be found used for reasonable money.

I also have Audix VX-10s, AT-4054s and AKG C535ebs, but condenser mics are trickier on loud soundstages, unless you have good people doing your sound and adequate time to tweak your setup during your soundcheck. Otherwise I think they work better in smaller venues or with quieter material. I think they are more difficult to use if you are doing your own sound from the stage and you have loud program material. I'd note the E865 is a supercardioid condenser, so you might want to consider that.
 
+1 for...

The Audix mics live...the OM-5 and 6 are simply excellent for loud/live music...less feedback prone than most with excellent off-axis rejection and a super-tight pattern. Just my .02 - Jay
 
My experience with most of the mics mentioned is that they have somewhat hyped up highs. If you are using them thru horn starved PA systems, then they will do the trick. But, if the PA has adequate horns, I think the Beta 58 has the smoothest sound with less of the hyped up highs.

As to gain before feedback issues, most modern cardioid pattern hand held mics perform about the same. The monitors need to be eq'ed for the specific mic though. Once that is done, they all do very well.
 
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