Cheap signal chain for university applied studios

Chris F

New member
I've been asked to consult for a purchase at the university where I teach. The tech person, who is really a computer specialist, has been asked to buy 10 standalone CD recorders, and equipment to allow the applied faculty to record their private lessons. She has no idea about any of this stuff, so she asked for my advice. I'm doing a little research, and thought I migt ask here for some opinions that might possibly alert me to some gear I didn't know about.

Basically, all that is needed is the most basic and CHEAP but reliable signal chain to allow an instructor to flip a switch, turn on a mic, and get on with the lesson. I made several suggestions:

1) A standalone that could also make a copy for the student would be nice, although not required, since most teachers would send the CDs home with the students anyway.

2) there doesn't seem to be much in the way of CHEAP standalones out there that come with a built-in pre that I know of, so a Sony dual deck with RCA ins would probably be pretty idiot proof - and believe me, some of us college profs ARE idiots when it comes to this stuff.

3) If #3 holds true, we're gonna need a really basic pre to set the recording level with. My only question here is, since most of the recordings will be mono, how can we get the signal from a single mono to dual RCA...will a simple splitter cable work?


With all that said, we were able to find a simple SOny dual deck for about $300. For mics, I suggested either a simple rugged SM57 (because it would be hard to **** up), or one of the cheap Chinese LD condensers that are going from anywhere from $60 to $80. I told her that I'd prefer something like a SP B1 (since I like the one I have), but that since super quality is not really the issue, a cheaper mic would probably do as long as it worked. She's trying to buy as many units for as little money as she can, of course. What say about the cheap mics?

For pres, about the cheapest thing I could find were the ART Tube MPs, which are about $50. Is there anything better in that range? I know we're talking about el cheapo stuff, but you also need to rememebr that the intended purpose is pretty lo-fi. :)

All suggestions welcome.
 
I think I'd be inclined to hang a mic from the ceiling, like one of the little Shure condensers:

http://www.shure.com/microphones/models/ezo.asp

With the mic hung above, it's relatively foolproof, theftproof, etc.

Then I'd run all of the mics back to a 12-channel mixer in an audio closet that had direct outs on the channels, something like this:

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=home/search/detail/base_pid/631216/

Or if you want separate pres, ART makes a little box that's more appropriate than a tube MP:

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/MicroMix/
 
rather than buying 10 cd burners you could take mshilarious's advise and get 1 mixer and 10 mics and put a mic in each room and hook them into the mixer than into 1 cd burner.
 
maskedman72 said:
rather than buying 10 cd burners you could take mshilarious's advise and get 1 mixer and 10 mics and put a mic in each room and hook them into the mixer than into 1 cd burner.

Don't think that would work too well since lessons will be going on simultaneously.
 
Thanks for the replies, everyone. I'd love to be able to get something like the Marantz for every studio, but at that price, I don't think it will happen. The one new Idea I hadn't thought of was the one about the small hanging condenser, which could be pretty cool for an ambient mic. Thanks, and keep 'em coming if you got 'em. :)
 
Chris,

You might look at the Sony ICD-MS515VTP digital recorder.
  • Includes Dragon Naturally Speaking™ Prefered Voice-To-Print Software Ver. 6.0
  • Uses Removable Memory Stick® Media
  • Up To 171 Minutes Recording Time With Supplied 8MB Memory Stick
  • Includes USB Connectivity For Easy PC Connection
  • High Quality Sound "New LPEC™ Codec" 16khz Sampling Rate
  • Digital Pitch/Playback Speed Control
  • Voice E-Mail Function
  • New Slim Style Design
  • Easy To Use Playback/Edit Function
  • Up To 340 Personally Named Message Files And 965 Messages
  • Full Function LCD Display
  • One Button Play From Record
  • Incremental Rewind (Easy Search)
  • Advanced Digital VOR (Voice Operated Recording)
  • Built-In Microphone
  • Built-In Playback Speaker
  • Record-Pause Function
  • Add-Recording Function
  • Battery Strength LED
  • Hold Switch
  • Hi/Lo Mic Sensitivity
  • Earphone And External Microphone Jacks
  • LED Operation Indicators (Record/Play)
This device is small enough to fit in a pocket. Since it uses Sony MemorySticks, teachers can simply drop off the chip at a central PC with a MemoryStick reader for duplication and/or printing while retaining the recorder.

$300 a pop
 
Part of the problem is that just about anything left in the practice room would be too easily stolen/damaged, etc. so the better approach would be to have something part of each teacher's kit or checked out by the teacher. like the previously mentioned recorder or a Fostex MR-8 or an Edirol R-1
 
OK, here's what they ended up giving me and about 10 other faculty:

One Sony RCD-W500C dual-well disc recorder (very cool).

One MXL 990 mic with shockmount. (okay, whatever...)

One ART Tube MP pre for the mic.


Okay, that's fine, and should do the job. My question is, what kind of connecting cable should I get to connect the Tube MP to the CD burner so that the signal appears on both channels of the stereo recording instead of only one? What do I need to know about phase cancellation issues before trying to do this? I know that if I were using a mixing console, I would just pan to center. Would a "Y" cable from the Tube MP to a double RCA cause serious phase issues?

Thanks in advance!
 
Yes, use a 'Y' cable. I think you'd want all ends to be TS. There will be no phase issue as you'll be spiltting one mono signal into two.
 
Chris F said:
Would a "Y" cable from the Tube MP to a double RCA cause serious phase issues?

Well you can't split the two sides of the XLR out, because if summed to mono the signal would disappear :eek: but you should be able to split the 1/4" out with a Y cable with no trouble. I believe the 1/4" out on a Tube MP is also balanced, so you want to use a 1/4" TS plug rather than TRS into the ART to avoid the polarity problem. So it should be 1/4" TS Y-cable to 2x RCA.

If you already have RCA cables, you can just get this:

http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog_name=CTLG&product_id=274-880
 
mshilarious said:
Well you can't split the two sides of the XLR out, because if summed to mono the signal would disappear :eek: but you should be able to split the 1/4" out with a Y cable with no trouble. I believe the 1/4" out on a Tube MP is also balanced, so you want to use a 1/4" TS plug rather than TRS into the ART to avoid the polarity problem. So it should be 1/4" TS Y-cable to 2x RCA.

If you already have RCA cables, you can just get this:

http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog_name=CTLG&product_id=274-880

Great, that's what I was hoping the answer was. Just to make sure I've got this straight:

XLR in from the mic into the ART ---> 1/4" TS to (2) RCA splitter into the 1/4" TRS out on the ART, then connect the RCA's to th burner as usual. Right? I'm glad there won't be any phase issues. That mic isn't anything to write home about for actual studio recording use, but man, for recording double bass lessons, it sure does a nice job in an informal setting like this. I like the way you can set it in front of the bass to get a clear sound and still have it pickup the conversation aspect of the lesson as well without raising your voice or having to try to talk into it. I would of course rather have a stereo mic and pre, but given the budget crunch here at the U these days, I'm happy to get anything at all. Thanks again everyone for your suggestions.
 
Hooked everything up today, and it works great for our intended purpose. Thanks for the advice on the splitter and everything.

One last question: The ART unit sounds fine for this low level of application but one annoying feature of it is that it has no "Power On/Off" switch, which means that if I leave it plugged in, it will just stay on all the time. With a SS device, this probably wouldn't be a big deal, but with the cheesy toob in this thing, I worry that it'll fry pretty quickly. Would it be okay to just unplug the wall-wart adapter from the unit when I want to turn it off, or would it be better to unplug the wall-wart from the wall every time? Obviously, it's no big deal with a piece of gear this cheap, but still, it took me so long to get one I'd hate to fry it.
 
Unplug the wall wart, because those things tend to burn out, too. Either that or plug it into a power strip that has an on/off switch. Yeah, you probably won't want to leave it powered up all the time. Those ART units are pretty cheap. I should know 'cause I have one.
 
Just got an email from the head techie at our school. She's asking if i have any suggestions for units to replace the ART pres because of the lack of an "on/off" switch. The only thing in that price range seems to be the smallest Behringer mixer, and I'm not sure if it has an on/off switch either....but I'm pretty sure that it wouldn't sound as good as the ART, which sounded way better than I thought it would. Any ideas?
 
On-Off switch? Just buy a power strip, plug everything into the on-off switch. Voila! Instant On-Off switch! :)
 
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