Capturing a nylon acoustic and my results are poor

Vectorfire

New member
I have a pair of Sennheiser E609S's, which have served me well when recording electric and for steel string acoustic.
But when I recently tried to record some nylon acoustic work it was clearly below the effective frequency range and response of these mics. I had to introduce so much post frequency attenuation that the noise levels became unacceptable.

What I think I need is a large cardoid, active mic, that can accurately capture the tonal nuances of a nylon acoustic.

Any recommendations, there are simply too many options.
analysis paralysis.
 
Budget?

Can you explain "post frequency attenuation" and maybe include a clip of your raw recording, so we can hear what you were trying to fix?

A good nylon string guitar will not be as loud as a steel string, but should still provide enough volume that reasonably close micing with proper mic position should be able to capture something workable. You'll just have to experiment a lot, and, honestly, an e609 would not be in my thoughts of mics to try (even on a steel-string acoustic).

LDCs are going to capture a lot. If you've got good technique and a good instrument, and a decent room, then there's a lot to pick from. I'd read reviews. I think my C214 worked well, but our daughter has the nylon string, so I haven't recorded it in years, and can't give any other suggestions (i.e., with other mics I have).

If you don't have an LDC at all, then the RØDE NT-1 is getting a lot of good press at a nice price.

Here's a kit at Sweetwater (no connection other than occasional customer)

Rode NT1 Kit | Sweetwater (You'd want a pop filter for the eventual vocal, and shock mount is a must.)
 
My budget is 1k, but Id prefer to keep it less, obviously. (for a pair)

Attenuation for me = EQ frequency boosting to bring things up to the front of the mix and bring back some definition, but in doing so I introduce so much overhead noise that a de-esser becomes required. Its buried to far, im just not picking up acoustical information to work with and so all I'm doing is raising the noise floor.

Its admittedly an unconventional mic for an acoustic application, but Ive oddly had good success in the past with my Martin and a pair of 610s (one at the sound hole, one over the 12th fret - 12"dist each). And its sounded pretty damn good, albeit with some post production love.
Its just that they seem totally incapable of recording a nylon string.

According to the website the freq response of those mics is 40 - 15000 Hz
Which explains why I'm loosing so much acoustical information on a nylon!

Your recommendation is 20-20k, which makes a hell of alot more sense on all fronts.
Guess ill be making a purchase then!
found a matched stereo pair of NT-1-A-MP on the same site for 550$~!
Thank you.

And I wouldn't want to post anything recorded with these mics, they literally sounds like mud.
Soon!
 
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If you're getting a lot of "overhead noise" (again, not sure what that is), I'd be slow to rush into a pair of LDCs because if that noise is environmental, you might just be capturing a lot more of it!

There are a dozen ways to record acoustic guitar, regardless of strings, but even a single mic with good placement should be able to get something that's listenable without a ton of tinkering, IMO. Not having used that Sennheiser, except where someone already had it draped over a cab, and it seemed fine, though perhaps its sensitivity (looks like a bit less than a SM57) makes it not a good candidate for lower volume sources?

I use both a single LDC or a pair of SDCs for steel-string, and occasionally (but rarely) both. Joe Gilder on YouTube has a couple of videos on micing guitars with both single and dual mic setups that are worth watching IMO. His demo is with a J-45, but applicable for any type of guitar.

40-15kHz is going to capture a lot of the audible range of a guitar. I don't think that's really the issue, but, of course, it's not going to sound as open (or "airy") as something that's getting more highs into the signal. However, that [really] upper part of the range is very low energy in a guitar, and pretty easily overwhelmed by simple things like HVAC noises slipping under the door of your recording space!

Repeating myself, I'd really try to understand the noise problem, first.
 
I think we need to hear the problem, because I, like Keith don't quite get it? With modern electronics and DAWs, I can't say I've noticed my eq, unless mega severe, doing anything to the noise floor. These mics have a pretty high threshold for level - being often planted right in front of speakers, so they're not the most sensitive of dynamics by design - so maybe just incapable of providing you with the definition you seek. Nylon guitars are more suited to condensers - you might just be taxing the mics and your preamps, and they are adding the artefacts you don't like? Have you tried a condenser mic of any type?
 
Its is certainly hiss.

Its not environmental.

Its being introduced because I am being forced to pump so much gain into the signal to get a usable amount of audio resolution.
As stated the threshold of those Sennheisers is much to high.

But, somehow I dont think thats going to be a problem anymore.
I gotta pick up some cables, but these arrived first thing today. :)

20180521_140307.jpg
 
Well, yeah, don't know what interface you're using but the e609 sensitivity looks to be between SM57 and SM7b territory and that's probably going to be have a lot of interfaces gasping for air. Hope those NT-1s work out!

If you must start with 2 mics, I'm going to suggest XY!

YouTube

P.S. There's a long thread around here about acoustic guitar recording - worth checking that out, too.
 
Wow , update.
The kit that these things come with is a complete piece of injection molded shit.
The tightening mechanism of the SMR Shockmount is completely stripped out on both mounts, and I cant use them because they fall over and face the floor.
Unfuckingbelievable.

:cursing:

Watching your video so I calm down and find my center again, lol

called Rode, replacement mounts incoming.
Stereo mic bar incoming from amazon as well.
 
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This is something I can definitely work with now.
You couldnt even hear the damn guitar before.
 
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Yeah, take a deep breath. You don’t get industrial shock mounts wit $300 mics and for some reason god only knows they all invent their own unique way to have the mic held by the suspension system.

And the mics a heavy. I can barely tighten the mount for my Miktek enough to keep it from turning upside down. But patience wins out. Just go slow.

P.S. (edit) if you put both of those mics on a single stand you might seriously consider adding a counterweight to that order.
 
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Yea, I ended up supergluing them at an angle that was suitable just so I could use them.

New mounts are inbound.

I have two stands but I liked the notion put forth on your video that a stereo pair bound by a single mounting solution moves its stereo image together intact.
As opposed to two seperate mic stands where one mic might dip lower or move, etc, altering that image in later takes.

It's the NT-1's into ancient M-Audio Profire 610 into Sonar X3 out to a raw wav. No playing with it whatsoever. I'm using a cheap cordoba nylon with an asprii mechanical reverb.
Same axe both tracks.

Now to flesh the idea out!
 
I have a stereo bar but only use it with a pair of small condensers. I already have a 3lb counterweight on my stand where I have the two LDCs mounted - one is on a small boom attachment and the other on the stand. It's a bit tippy without it.
 
I like the round base mic stands because I can go to Walmart or a sporting goods store and buy a 10 lb metal barbell weight, remove the base, thread the weight over the shaft and reattach the base, and you have a stand that is nearly impossible to knock over.

You can get closer to it than stands with legs.
The legged stand type can work too as long as the leg tubing is up to the added weight.
 
I play a nylon string with Drop Half tuning but I definitely prefer steel string. Even though they make your fingertips bleed in the first few hours of playing it without calluses and use your blood as a sacrifice to Satan. Tutuapp 9apps Showbox
 
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I play a nylon string with Drop Half tuning but I definitely prefer steel string. Even though they make your fingertips bleed in the first few hours of playing it without calluses and use your blood as a sacrifice to Satan. Tutuapp 9apps Showbox

I do not want to start a discussion here, but this is somewhat strange. A nylon string sounds very different to a steelstring. And you pick your instrument for the sound. So in my opinion it had nothing to do with what you like playing more, but what sound you want/need, you pick your instrument for. So it is no comparisson.
 
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