Buy a new mike or stick with the one I have?

YanKleber

YanKleber

Retired
Hey there!

I am finishing my very first CD. It was a mess of experimentation that turned out surprisingly good considering my lack of experience and the way it was done. For this project I used a cheap SM-57 clone because that's what I had available.

In the very beginning I started with a fancy Behringer C-3 that costed 10x more, but right after the first tests I noticed that it was a piece of crap. Noisy with a harsh sound. Very disappointed I picked the 57 clone from the box (I had bought it but never used till then) and got my jaws falling when I see how better than the C-3 it was. Not necessary to say that I put the Crapinger immediately on sale and got rid of it...

:facepalm:

Anyway, not being a singer I didn't have previous experience singing therefore I don't know nothing about mikes.

In a couple months I should start my next project and I would like to look at it a bit more seriously. One of the things I am after is some advice about microphones. Would it worst to invest in a more appropriated mike for vocals or stick to the SM-57 is my best option?

I have seen people hyping about the MXL V-67 and the Avantone CK-6 (both fit in my budget).

Knowing that I am a hobbist producing myself at home and with absolutely no one commercial intentions (give away albums) what are your opinions?

Thanks!

PS: I use a pre-amp Behringer MIC100.
 
Low cost Behr products do not have a good rep around here. First thing I'd suggest (if getting another mic) is dumping the Behr pre-amp. A $40 preamp is not going to do any more for you than providing phantom power.
What do you have for an audio interface - does it have phantom?
Certainly an LDC mic should give you more precise vocal tracking than a 57 clone.
 
mjbphotos said:
Low cost Behr products do not have a good rep around here. First thing I'd suggest (if getting another mic) is dumping the Behr pre-amp. A $40 preamp is not going to do any more for you than providing phantom power.
What do you have for an audio interface - does it have phantom?
Certainly an LDC mic should give you more precise vocal tracking than a 57 clone.
Click to expand...

My interface has not phantom power. It is a Behringer UCA222.

About the LDC thing... Perhaps is because the 57's small diag that I have a lot of level variation along my recordings?

Thanks!
 
I believe you mentioned that you did not have a genuine SM57........instead you have some sort of clone. But even so..........variations in vocal track volume are not likely caused by your mic. More likely you are experiencing proximity issues. A genuine SM57 or 58 is always a very safe bet for most vocals and other recording. They're tried and true. I'd invest in a better AI along with picking up an SM57 or 58 if I were you. The mics will never be obsolete for you. Get used to that sound before you go off and buy an LDC. I have an MXL V67 and it's a good mic.........but not as useful overall as either of the 2 Shure models mentioned here.
 
Mickster, these are very good advice!

Taking in consideration what MJB and you said, I think that my best bet at the moment will be stay with what I have!

Since you said that my level variation is due to proximity then probably no one microphone will really help with it, so seems to be pointless to put money on it. I really am not inclined to buy a genuine SM-57 as the sound of my clone is OK (my problem is really more in the proximity stuff -- and actually it is not a BIG problem since I can always fix it with the DAW automation).

Other than that, both of you mentioned to get a better AI. Once in a while I think about this (mainly for GAS reasons) but I always end giving up because till the date I still couldn't see what are the real benefits that such investment would bring to me over my cheap rig. Question is... Will I be able to instantly notice a BIG improvement when I record with such equipment or is something that maybe my strained ears won't perceive? My concern is to put $200 on a nicely finished gadget that will look cool on my desk but that won't really aggregate a superior quality to my records. It would be very frustrating for me.

See, I am not a sound engineer capable to spot things like subtle harmonic details and such. I am not even an audiophile. I am just a regular guy whose 100% of music collection is MP3 and that cannot hear any difference between a tune encoded at 128kbps to another one encoded at 320kbps...

:o
 
If you've paid attention on this site you already know that changing your AI will not make your song sound better just because you used a more expensive AI. Better sound starts at the performance level and your experience level with music production. What we are saying is that what you have now is limited......both on the performance end and the production end. You seem to be saying that unless spending some money will make your sound better..........just spending the money alone.......it's not worth it to you. You seem to be happy with your clone mic as well.

A better mic will help you capture more sounds more accurately...........period. A better AI with phantom power and other features will be more useful over time than what you have now...........almost undoubtedly. There's no magic you can go out and buy that I know of.

I might have missed it but do you have any songs posted? I was curious as to how your clone 57 sounds.
 
Mickster, I really got the point now! Sometimes we need to discuss, talk and hear to think better.

:)

This is the first time that someone explain me the AI thing from this perspective. Now I totally understand that invest on a pricey AI or preamp would be pointless for me. My problem is that I alwyas thought that equipment by itself could play an important role on the whole scenario and help to make a BIG difference.

You see, MJB said that I should dump my preamp and buy a better AI. It sounded so drastic that I thought that replacing my crap for gold I would get gold. But then you explained me that I still will keep getting crap but with a potential of get gold some day. Since I probably won't progress too much in my record skills is most probable that I will still keep getting crap forever though... LoL...

Well, said that... my preamp has phantom power and help to enhance my microphone signal. My AI makes AD conversion. Being an ignorant producer what else should I expect from them? So from my small point of view there is not a point of pay $1000 or (even $100) on a preamp or an AI if I cannot immediately hear the difference from my $40 equip.

About mic, yes, I am KIND of happy with it -- but try to look if from my perspective. I am not even a singer then I don't have vocalize techniques and such and I had this silly hope that a better mic could help me with my limitations, specifically the proximity thing then it would be less painful for me since I wouldn't have to fix it in the mix. But you said that it is not possible so I understood that it will be pointless to put money on a better mic also.

:facepalm:

About my tunes, yes, I have some stuff online but with my wife singing (the pilot CD). She is not a singer either but agreed to record four tunes for me. She was going to be my official singer (so I thought!) but then she told me that didn't want to go ahead with it, then she abandoned the project and now you know why I became the new singer... LoL...

This tune was recorded with the 57 clone:
https://soundcloud.com/estereolux/estereolux-pescador-do-tempo

This other ones were recorded with a Behringer C-3:
https://soundcloud.com/estereolux/estereolux-anti-amor-final-mix
https://soundcloud.com/estereolux/estereolux-bodas
https://soundcloud.com/estereolux/estereolux-meus-olhos-vao-brilhar

I have other 10 tracks (sung by me all using the 57) that aren't online mainly because I didn't register them yet. They will be online and available for free download very soon.

Thank you (and MJB) again for putting a light over this. Sometimes I need that someone shake me hard to make me think right!

:thumbs up:

PS: The songs are sung in Portuguese because we are Brazilians! :D
 
arcaxis said:
If the variations in levels are proximity as suggested, perhaps using a pop filter in front of the mic could help maintain a more consistent distance from the mic and prevent getting too close.

I started to learn how to sing on my own a few years back. As I got better (I think I got better :) ), it seemed the mic I used seemed to matter less, but mostly gave a different coloration and/or clarity to the sound.

One of the first mics I had was a V67G. I still have it and I think it's a fairly good budget LDC to start out with.
Click to expand...

Hey Arcaxis, I just saw your message after to post the last one!

I already use a home made pop filter (made out of a embroidery frame and a pantyhose) and it helps a lot with my "p" and "b" blasts. Do you think that the V-67 would be a good acquisition even for someone with a complete lack of technique like me?

:)
 
If you have a mic that sounds nice, it really doesn't matter what it is. So far you're doing the right thing, trying things out and scrapping the ones that don't cut it. With practically all cardioids, distance changes level and tone, so the popper stopper idea is a good one to keep your lips the same distance away.
 
I wouldn't bother with a condenser mic until you've got a proper interface with phantom power. Will you notice a better sound than using the Behr preamp and UCA? I think you will. there are often decent 'starter' audio interfaces on sale for $100 - I know you are in Brazil, and have fewer choices.
 
Thank you very much, guys!

Yes, here in Brasil the options are reduced and prices are high when compared with yours. Import is not an option for me at this time because dollar exchange has raised against or currency (Real) due to Chinese stock market and petroleum barrel low price. Also lately customs are killing us (60% over good + shipping) a real steal.

Checking the local market the available options are...

Steinberg Ci1 - $112
Steinberg UR12 - $140
M-audio M-track 2 - $170
For the mic I can get the MXL V-67 for $215

All NEW stuff prices. I wouldn't bother to buy any used studio electronic gear. Different from USA, Europe, etc, where people barely use stuff and sell it like new here normally when someone sell a quality equipment is because it was used to death and it's not rare that it comes with some kind of insoluble issue or that it had its bowels messed for some kind of technician. All in all, buy such kind of stuff used here can be a real adventure!

:)
 
arcaxis said:
Enjoyed your wife's singing!! I think I favored her voice with the Behri C3. Seemed to have a tad more clarity.
Click to expand...
Glad to know that you liked it! :) What I noticed with the C3 is that the voice was to medium frequency and lacking that velvet aspect. I had to mess a lot with the signal in the mix to give it more body, if you can get me. With the 57 I seem not need to do too much, specially with my voice. Anyway... the C3 is history for me!

:D
 
YanKleber said:
Checking the local market the available options are...

Steinberg Ci1 - $112
Steinberg UR12 - $140
M-audio M-track 2 - $170
For the mic I can get the MXL V-67 for $215
Click to expand...

Not trying to be a gear snob or anything...but all the stuff you listed will probably make an insignificant difference to what you already have.
At best, you might find one of those other mics has a different tonal flavor that works better for your purpose...but that can only be found out by buying/trying (which is often why people have a bunch of mics in their locker, but end up using 2-3 of their faves all the time).

For you to really step up in mic quality...you would have to get at least to the $500 range and above...and even then you would want to buy/try to see what sounds good to you for your purpose (which is often why people have a bunch of expensive mics in their locker, but end up using 2-3 of their faves all the time). :D

I've got over 3 dozen or more mics....but I basically use 3-4 of the same ones over and over. :)
Granted, I got a larger quantity for those times when I need to record with a bunch of people and instruments at the same time...but it's a rare thing for me these days.
 
That's why I love this place... while one can feel frustrated and disappointed with some answers I really like the objectivity and honesty from certain members. No worries Miroslav... you have an excellent point and the most valuable opinions are that ones that make me think and take decisions.

:)

Each one here in this forum have a different perspective regarding to record. My own is very humble because I just do it for fun and I don't have a lot of money to spend on this hobby. I already suspected that a $100-200 interface wouldn't give to me anything else than my cheapo gear does. At least not that MY ears could notice. In fact since yesterday I had already pushed it to the end of my list with a big possibility of not buy one. Then you just confirmed my suspicions. I will just stick with my preamp and my interface that in my opinion does their job honestly for my goals.

:guitar:

Now about the microphones... Being a very simple thing internally (basically a diaphragm and a coil) I really have my doubts that a $200 mike be the same thing as a $15 one -- that was how much costed my 57 clone. If they are the same thing then it is just a rip off. It MUST have something different in the internal engineering that validates such price. But putting it aside, I got your point. In fact you put it very well because the point here is not the quality of the mike itself but the fact if the characteristics of that mike will please or not the person. Also the response of the mike will depend on the tonal curve of the singer voice, so I would have to try several microphones until to find "that" one that fits better my voice (and yet it would be subjective). Unfortunately I cannot burn a pile of money just trying a lot of stuff in the pursuit of such chimera so it's better to keep quiet.

And then you rained on my parade (LoL, just kidding!) saying that to achieve a perceptible enhancement I would need to get a $500 mike. Well, a $500 mike in terms of USA prices means that it would cost at least $1000 here. Honestly, it is not gonna happen. Ever.

Don't get me wrong, I am OK with my cheapo mike. Actually I don't stop to get impressed with the miracles that this crappy guy can do with my non-singer voice. I just imagined that if a $15 mike can do that possibly a $200 could do it at least twice... But I understood that it is not that simple.

People, that's it. I am not going to invest a penny in my preamp/AI/microphone set. Let's just keep having fun with my crap.

I would like to thank a lot to all for putting so many different lights over the subject. As I have mentioned several times before, the best thing in a discussion about any subject is the fact that divergent opinions make people THINK. When someone tell you his/her opinion you don't have to agree or disagree but just pick that thought, mix it with your own ideas and extract a juice that will help to decide.

Thank you! Thank you! Thank you!

:thumbs up:
 
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