Best Value Mic(s) for Recording Male Vocals/Martin Acoustics

Aceboympk

New member
I have read A LOT of information on mics in this forum prior to posting (thanks to all!!!!!). Its funny becuase I have about 400 posts on the UMGF (Unofficial Martin Guitar Forum), and I learned there that normally there are four answeres if three people reply to a question.

However, I have seen a lot of consistency in this forum. Most people agree on quality of sound with a few mic types/manufacturers. That's reassuring because I'm brand new to home recording (actually, I'm brand new to recording) and I just purchased a Presonus Firepod.

I'm going to need to purchase some mics. Free with my purchase is a AT2020. Not a great mic by any stretch, but its free. However, I do need some quality mics to record myself and a few other acoustic guitarists.

Budget is always a factor, as is the mics application from what I gather reading all these posts. I think I'm on the right track when I ask which mic(s) should I consider?

I think I have a pretty good list from a lot of the posts I've read, but I'd really appreciate some feedback from people who will forget more than I'll ever know.

I'm 40, so I'm not going to make a career out of recording. But, I do purchase quality products so I don't have to upgrade later. I own a Martin D-41 and a Martin OM-28 John Mayer. Although these aren't the most expensive guitars, they weren't inexpensive and I'd like to purchase some quality mics to match their sound quality (please not too many jokes if you're not a Martin fan).

Right now, I play with two other guys. We all play acoustics (2 Martins and a Gibson). The other two guys are better singers than me, but I sing ok.

In effect, I'd like to purchase a couple of mics for singing and a few mics for playing. However, my budget is limited, so I'll be purchasing mics one at a time or a couple at a time if I can find some good deals. Specifically, I'd like to spend about $200 on a mic, though I could spend more (up to $400), and I'd gladly spend less (realistically $100 as a minimum). I know that you get what you pay for, though on a purely price point, there seems to be a break on quality. What I mean is, there are some $200 mics that sound like some $400 mics. Therefore, there are some $400 mics that sound like $200 mics. I'd like to buy the $200 mic that sounds as good as an average sounding $400 mic.

Here is a list of the mics that I've read on the forum that seem to be consistently regarded as a good quality (granted, a lot of these are priced higher than I can afford right now, but they are a benchmark - maybe there's a mic out there that sounds about 90% as good, but is about half as much????):
1) SM81
2) AKG C414BULS
3) EV RE20
4) SM7b
5) SM57
6) Schoeps CMC6/MK4
7) Microtech Gefell UMT 800
8) CAD VX2
9) ADK A48, Vienna Edition, Hamburg Edition (BTW, WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE VIENNA AND HAMBURG EDITION?)
10) KSM 44, 32
11) Blue Baby Bottle
12) Senn MD421
13) Crown CM-700

Thanks for your help. One more thing for people who may not be able to answer my question about mics, but maybe has read any of these books?
Singing:
1) Set Your Voice Free : Foreword by Dr. Laura Schlesinger by Roger Love, Donna Frazier Hardcover: 240 pages Publisher: Little, Brown; Book & CD edition (October 5, 1999) ISBN: 0316441791
2) Jeffrey Allen's Secrets of Singing: Male (Low and High Voice) by Jeffrey Allen Paperback: 377 pages Publisher: Warner Brothers Publications; Bk&CD-Rom edition (September 1, 1994) ISBN: 0769278043
3) Teach Yourself to Sing: Everything You Need to Know to Start Singing Now by Karen F. Surmani Paperback: 64 pages Publisher: Alfred Pub Co; Book & CD edition (October 1, 1995) ISBN: 0882846655

Home Recording:
1) The Everything Home Recording Book: From 4-track to digital--all you need to make your musical dreams a reality (Everything: Sports and Hobbies) by Marc Schonbrun, Marc Schonbrun Paperback: 289 pages Publisher: Adams Media Corporation (November 30, 2004) ISBN: 1593371381
2) Guerrilla Home Recording : How to Get Great Sound from Any Studio (no matter how weird and cheap your gear is) by Karl Coryat Paperback: 208 pages Publisher: Backbeat Books (January 9, 2005) ISBN: 0879308346
3) The Complete Idiot's Guide to Home Recording Illustrated (Complete Idiot's Guide to) by Clayton Walnum Paperback: 305 pages Publisher: Alpha Books (November 1, 2003) ISBN: 1592571220
4) Home Recording for Musicians for Dummies by Jeff Strong Paperback: 384 pages Publisher: For Dummies (April 5, 2002) ISBN: 0764516345

I think I've exhausted my limitation....sorry if this was too long for a thread on this forum. Just let me know what's appropriate and I'll adjust accoridingly. I'll be here for a while.

Thanks,
Mark
 
Hey Ace boy:

Looks like you've done some homework. Electronic Musician magazine put out a mag called Personal Studio 2005 Buyer's Guide. It doesn't have a lot of insightful information, but it does have a cross comparison matrix (including suggested retail) for mics, mixers, monitors, preamps, keyboards/synthesizers, EQs, Effects processors, direct boxes, and a plethora of other studio recording equipment (to include furniture).

You may want to pick that up, or at least see if you local newstand carries it, and check it out to see if it will help you out in picking up what you want.

I've found it very helpful because you can look at the options one mic has compared to another (similar in price or close in price). As far as mics go they list the polar pattern, internal roll-off, internal pad, MAX. SPL, Freq. Response, Suggested applications (vocals, instruments, etc), special features & price.

Sorry, I could not specifically tell you what mic to buy. Good luck.
 
Greetings Ace,

I have used a few of the mics on your list at one time or another, but the only one I currently own and have used frequently with my home setup is the SM81. I use it to record my 20+ year old D-35, and can unreservedly recommend it.

The Sm57, though not a bad mic, will probably not give you the detail you are looking for to capture the tone of your Martin. (ok for live though) I have heard the MD421 and Baby Bottle in other peoples' studios, and my impression of them is very favorable. But I have not done a side by side comparison.

On one project I had good results using a pair of SM81s spaced 3 feet away capturing my guitar and vocal together. It can also be a decent vocal mic if handled carefully, but is very prone to plosives.
 
Of all the mics on your list, I've only used the SM57 for my dreadnought. IMHO, the MXL 603S beats the '57 for this application. But the main reason I'm posting here is to state that in my experience, placement is just as big a factor as which mic you use, so don't overlook that part of the equation. You just have to put on some phones and listen while you move the mic around. You'll be amazed at how much difference moving the mic/guitar just 1" can make!
 
I have a set of SM81's that I abso-friggin-lutely live by!!!

The smoothest mics for micing acoustic that I've had the pleasure of owning. I use one pointed slightly in the direction of the back of the guitar at the soundhole, and one on the neck, pointing slightly towards the headstock.

This gives me a great body/neck sound.

They are expensive, but you will not be dissapointed. I also use these for overheads on my drummers kit to wonderful results!!
 
I guess the first question I'd ask is how are you going to record three acoustic guitars and three singers? All at the same time (6 sources)? Or are you going to build the recording by tracking parts in smaller doses (e.g., one scratch guitar track first, followed by the other two guitars, followed by the three vocal, and then adding the first guitar back to replace the scratch)? If you haven't thought this part through, you should do so because it will help determine how many mics you need and which ones would be best for your overall budget.
 
Aceboympk said:
<snip> But, I do purchase quality products so I don't have to upgrade later. <snip> I'd like to spend about $200 <snip>
In that case, I suggest you wait until you have a bigger budget.
 
nice to see another UMGF member here! i used to hang there (under the same name) many moons ago, but haven't been around there in a while. all the trolling done by Taylor fans really got on my nerves. don't they have their own sandbox to play in? :D

anyway, similar to what DJL said, you're not gonna get any of those mics for the budget you've listed.....unless you've got an inside line on $200 CMC6's that i don't know about--in which case i'll take 10. :b

with a $200-400 budget, i'd look at a pair of SDCs, and look to record the group all at once from a distance, with the mics in XY or spaced pair. in fact, if $400 really *is* the top of your "i can spend it now" budget, i'd save another couple hundred and get a pair of SM81's and be done with it. if you've really only got $200 that you can spend, look at a pair of MXL 603's or Oktava MC012's.

if you want to mic each of the guitars and vocals, it's gonna take a bit more cash, even with "good budget" mics. a pair of MXL 603s (what i use to record my Martin D15) will run you $100-150, as will a pair of Oktava MC012's. Then for vocals, i'd look at sm58's, sennheiser e835's or MXL V67's (or one of the other "cheap chinese" LDCs, depending)--all of which run around $80-90 new (cheaper used). take that and multiply it across 3 folks, and then add in the necessary preamps and whatnot, and it can get kinda pricey fast. hence the cheap and dirty way would be an "audience" recording.


welcome to your next "waster of money" hobby!

cheers,
wade
 
Thanks everyone. For some reason, I can't access this site from my company's network. Weird!

Anyway, I plan on buying Studio Projects C4 for the guitars. At $319 for a pair, I think they're a bargain. Wish I could find some used!

I plan on purchasing an Audio Technica AT40XX for voice (is that what people abbreviate with vox?). Not sure which, and it will have to be used. I read the 4033 is best for female vocals, and the 4040 is better for male vocals. Because I'm a newbie, I have no idea why one is better for female and one is better for male. I wish I could purchase a 4050, but outside my budget unless I can find one used again in the $200-$400 range.

Speaking of budgets, my budget is $200-$400 per mic. I'm not sure if this makes sense because I'm going to be going through a Presonus Firepod.

Am I not matching my components quality correctly? I mean, do I need an RME Fireface instead of the Presonus Firepod if I'm going to be spending that type of money for mics? I'm pretty committed to the Firepod, so should I purchase less quality mics?

I won't be upgrading from the Firepod because I'm not looking to put together a recording studio. I'm just trying to put together a pretty good quality CD for demo purposes.

Thanks!

Mark
 
Aceboympk said:
I plan on purchasing an Audio Technica AT40XX for voice (is that what people abbreviate with vox?)

Not an abbreviation, it's Latin for voice. It goes back to the days of the organ stop that sounded like a choir being labeled "vox humana".

http://www.organstops.org/v/VoxHumana.html


Not sure which, and it will have to be used. I read the 4033 is best for female vocals, and the 4040 is better for male vocals. Because I'm a newbie, I have no idea why one is better for female and one is better for male.

It's because the 4040 has a larger presence peak and a high peak, which is thought to add some nice detail to lower, richer male voices, while the flatter 4033 avoids a shrill sound on the higher, purer female voice. Your mileage may vary.

Am I not matching my components quality correctly? I mean, do I need an RME Fireface instead of the Presonus Firepod if I'm going to be spending that type of money for mics? I'm pretty committed to the Firepod, so should I purchase less quality mics?

Don't worry about that. Quality mics sound better.
 
Good Book

1) Set Your Voice Free : Foreword by Dr. Laura Schlesinger by Roger Love, Donna Frazier Hardcover: 240 pages Publisher: Little, Brown; Book & CD edition (October 5, 1999) ISBN: 0316441791

I own this book and it has some good breathing exercises and goes deaper than just singing it covers how to communicate whether singing or speaking. The CD has numerous scales and techniques. For me, it was money well spent.
 
Dare I say it???

AT4040.

:)

For vocals and guitar it's fairly good.

I'd recommend trying to get some mileage out of the AT2020 first before buying any more mics since you're new to recording.
 
Some mics in that price range that I have really liked:

older akg 451's
octava mc012's
at 4047 (probably have to get used, but great mic)
studio projects c1 (not on acoustic)
some old akg (c91's? called blue line series)

At that price range the trick will be to either get the octavas or get something used....make sure whatever you get is versatile.
 
ozraves said:
I'd recommend trying to get some mileage out of the AT2020 first before buying any more mics since you're new to recording.
i kinda agree. use the mic until you hear everything you dont like about it. then you'll know what to listen for or you'll notice what you dont hear when you buy a better mic
 
your choices are (probably) all good. for what it's worth i record only my voice and my guitar, and i use two large condensers, studio projects C1 and AT4033. i have a small condenser omni (cheap behringer ecm8000) which also works well when i use it in combination with one of the others. i'm happy with all 3 mics.

vocal: to be frank, if u're just doing acoustic guitar and vocals, you don't need a dynamic microphone. the sm57/etc. might be the workhorse of recording, but you don't need a workhorse. you need something that works for just acoustic guitar and vocals. (my dynamic never gets touched).

acoustic guitar: absolutely needs to be recorded in stereo. for sparse recordings, the difference is huge between stereo and mono, imho. so yeah, 2 small condensers, or 1 small 1 large, or 2 large, or 2 small together with 1 large, are all good choices.

vocal and acoustic guitar at the same time: this is what i do, since i'm lazy and i just perform a live take. for this i use 2 large condensers in stereo, other sites recommend 1 small 1 large, etc. i have a horrible voice so i won't inflict my mp3s on u guys but if you private msg me i'll give you links to my sparse recordings of just my voice and acoustic with the mic setup above.

to be frank, from all the listening tests (thelisteningsession.com is fun, but taken with a few grains of salt) and what-not, i really don't think you can go wrong with ANY of the AKGs, scheops, ATs, SPs, that you mention in your initial post. don't over-buy the hype. everyone always has a "recommended" mic. when you put together these recommendations, you realize you've just put together about 90% of the marketed mics for that application, which isn't going any further than flipping through a catalogue of mics. that says to me most of the mics in a certain price range work as well as any other, as is true about other things too.

your presonus preamp and recorder looks like a great set-up. i'd love to have something like that. (i use symetrix sx202 -> audiophile 192) as for how much is too much, well, my rule of thumb is spend as much as you can afford.

one last, obvious, but neglected thing: what guitar you use and how you play that guitar, if you use your nails or your fingers, or your pick, and the thickness of the pick, all play a HUGE role with how your guitar will sound. i can make my recording more bright by using my nails instead of my fingers; darker by plucking closer to the fretboard than the bridge; and so on. (when you listen to the listeningsessions.com mic test on acoustic guitar, this really becomes obvious).

seed
 
Well, I ordered a KSM44 and a KSM27. I'll keep one of them. If the 44 is worth $400 more, then I'll keep it. Otherwise, I'll keep the 27. They arrive tomorrow.
 
Aceboympk said:
Well, I ordered a KSM44 and a KSM27. I'll keep one of them. If the 44 is worth $400 more, then I'll keep it. Otherwise, I'll keep the 27. They arrive tomorrow.

awesome. let us know :p
 
hi.....

i've been to the UMGF site many times. Welcome to HomeRec!

FYI...I have a Martin D-15, along with a few other acoustics. I recorded a cd/album this summer with a couple of friends....Martins, Gibsons, etc.

I own a Studio Projects C1 and B1. They're great for the money. I also own an AKG C1000s...I love it on the Martin. Also have a few SM57s and 58s...they are, as everyone says, the "workhorse" mics. You cannot go wrong with any of these. But i see you've ordered some already! So good luck...I'm sure the mics you bought will sound justfine....remember- placement, placement, placement!
 
I've recorded some acoustic tracks with a couple Oktava MC012's that i'm pretty proud of. I use them for vocals too. All I know is they sound better thank SM57's for vocals.

I'd suggest those. I use them for everything except kick drum and amps.
 
Although I'm not familiar with the third singing book, the other two are excellent IMHO. Another good thing too add, if feasible, would be to join the local barbershop harmony chapter. Inexpensive and more importantly you'd get free coaching, along with the opportunity to sing in front of others singers. Eliminating the "crutch" of an instrument in vocal practice leads to stronger solo singing. (love them Martins though!)

The "safest" vocal microphones IMHO if you're not testing them directly
(aka the best way:)), would be the Electro-Voice RE16 (around $200 new),
or RE20 (under $400). They have been used on many male or female vocalists
on tons of hits (especially RCA Studios). Also take EQing VERY well BTW.

Some benefits of these EV's include better separation for recording live,
and their patented "variable-D" feature which minimizes proximity effect.
This makes microphone placement easier vs. other cardiod microphones.

The EV 635a omni is worth a try too. It's my preferred choice on classic
(Chicago style) R&B type material in order to sound more authentic. YMMV.

Chris

P.S. On some singers (like me), the SM57 through a quality signal chain
will meet or beat a Neumann. So "you get what you pay for" doesn't
always correlate. The EV's above are much less fussy about mic pre's.
 
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