Best mics for my needs

C

Cheeky Monkey

New member
I'm fairly new to home recording and have been following this forum for a while now trying to figure out how to best get going. Mics are my next planned acquisition. A little background on what I'm about to do may be best.

I was planning to turn my son's recently vacated bedroom (13' x 10' with sloped ceiling one side) into a small recording studio, but instead, I think I'm now going to set-up in my finished basement (larger environment), and use portable office partitions (I'm about to acquire for cheap) as "gobos" that I can position when I record acoustic guitar and vocals.

I have sufficient computing power and have Cubase 2.0. I soon expect to get an Audiophile 24/96 soundcard (open to suggestions on the soundcard too)and a midi keyboard controller (also open to suggestions in the $200 range). I just ordered a pair of Wharfedale Diamond Pro 8.2a monitors and a small Wharfedale R1604 mixer (from "deepwater", HR member and dealer, for anyone who's been following the thread under the "Other Equipment..." section of the forum). I realize the monitors/mixer are pretty-much entry-level gear, and I'm mentioning it so you know where I'm at as far as quality/price (for now).

I'm now considering mics, and I've been reading quite a bit of the Harvey Gerst thread (which is great, and appreciated), and although I've done some searches to try and determine what mics might best suit my needs, I'm still not sure. I plan to mostly use two mics on my acoustic (Taylor 814c) guitar, set-up in X/Y configuration in front (as Harvey suggests, at least to try). I don't expect that the mic-pres in the Wharfedale mixer will be considered terrific, so I s'pose I should get mics that match the corresponding quality/price point. I also need a vocal mic. I don't plan to mic my Fender Strat.

Based on my planned set-up, I'm open to suggestions on the best bang-for-the-buck acoustic guitar and vocal mics. I'm sorry if my research still has left me unknowing and more than likely covering ground that has already been beaten to death.

I'm speculating that two Studio Projects B1s for the acoustic and a Shure SM58 or Beta 58 for vocals may be a good start, but again, I'm really not sure. Thanks in advance for any advice.
 
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Well I might suggest the Studio Projects C4 for the accoustic (and just generally very versatile) and a MXL V67G for the vocal
 
A few questions:

1) What's the wood combination on the Taylor?
2) What's your right hand technique?
3) What's your overall budget for two SDs and one vocal mic?
 
Innovations said:
Well I might suggest the Studio Projects C4 for the accoustic (and just generally very versatile) and a MXL V67G for the vocal
Click to expand...

I'll second the V67G, if you can't stretch to the C4s try to pick up a good pair of MK012s at guitar center - if ya don't like em you can always sell them on ebay for twice what you paid like everyone else.
 
Jeezus. Why the heck are so many people recommending that gawd-awful v67 ? Too many decent cheap mics out there to be wasting money on stuff that sounds bad.

The Oktavas, on the other hand, are a no-brainer on the accoustic. You'll probably dig 'em.
 
sdelsolray said:
A few questions:

1) What's the wood combination on the Taylor?
2) What's your right hand technique?
3) What's your overall budget for two SDs and one vocal mic?
Click to expand...
1) Wood combo: Sitka spruce top, east indian rosewood back and sides, mahogony neck with ebony fretboard and bridge.
2) RH style: Combo fingerpick (thumb/index finger) and strum. My style is folk/rock/blues.
3) Budget: To get started with my other entry-level gear, not more than $100 each new. I'll consider buying used, but I wonder about potential problems/damage.
 
This was a mic test done with a Taylor 814 ce without using the ES on the guitar. Excuse the lame guitar playing but it might help you "hear" some cheap mics. They were set up in pairs




Here is the order on the little guitar clips for the mics used starting with first.
I'll put what Blue says the capsule emulates


Blue Bottle with b-5 capsule (neumann/geffel m55k) $10,000 a pair

Groove tubes gt44 $400 a pair (on sale at guitar center)

Blue Bottle with b-0 capsule (ela m 251) $10,000 a pair

Groove tubes gt-33 $200 a pair (on sale at guitar center)

Blue Bottle with b-6 capsule (akg c12)$10,000 a pair

the guitar was a taylor 814 ce
 
I also support the C-4's as a good entry-level pair of small diaphragms. They'll come with a good case, shock mounts, and omni capsules. I prefer them on acoustic to the Oktavas (which rock as drum overheads). They also come with excellent customer service, unlike the Oktavas. Personally, I believe you would do better in the long run to step up to some somewhat more pricey mics you'll keep for a lifetime. The good preamps will come, eventually. For mid-priced small diaphragms, I favor Shure SM81 and AKG C451. I can tell you, however, that the C-4's are pretty good mics. I also use a Taylor, BTW.
Vocal mics are more dicey, because they are like shoes. They either fit or they don't, and buying more expensive shoes that don't fit won't help. At the entry level, I would consider a cheap to mid priced dynamic, and a good cheap condenser. I can't say I'm a big fan of the Studio Projects B-1 or the V67 on vocals, I find the B-1 a little dull, and the V67 muddy, frankly. For dynamics, I like Sennheiser e835 and AKG D770. Many, many people like Shure SM57 or SM58, which just doesn't work on my voice that well. Sennheiser MD421 is a better, more versatile dynamic than any of the above, IMO, and is a little more pricey. Top of the line is Shure SM7B, Sennheiser MD441, and Electrovoice RE20.
For entry level vocal condensers, I like AKG C2000B, CAD M9, Audio Technica AT4033 and AT4040. In mid priced mics, I like AKG C414B-ULS, Shure KSM44, Rode NTK, and B.L.U.E. Baby Bottle. Note that these are very different mics with very different qualities, but all are well made, will sound great on *some* singer, and are good for recording a bunch of stuff other than vocals.
In a perfect world, you would never buy a vocal mic without trying it out for a week with your own gear. If your world is less than perfect, at least buy well made mics that you know are good for recording *something*. This will also help if you wind up upgrading or selling the mic.
Mics I wouldn't buy, just because I'm unimpressed, include AKG C1000S and C3000B, as well as virtually any mic by Behringer, Samson, Nady, Digital Reference (Audio-Technica bottom feeders), and any Shure PG series mics. Best of luck. Feel free to email or PM me, as I have spent the last three years doing what you are doing, starting at a similar place. Note that mixers are very useful tools, but in the end, you're going to end up buying a couple of good preamps, and like your Taylor, they don't come cheap. I believe that the more money you spend up front on better mics and preamps, the less money you'll spend upgrading later. And- the basement *is* a better choice. It'll be much easier to isolate acoustically.-Richie
 
slobbermonster said:
This was a mic test done with a Taylor 814 ce without using the ES on the guitar. Excuse the lame guitar playing but it might help you "hear" some cheap mics. They were set up in pairs




Here is the order on the little guitar clips for the mics used starting with first.
I'll put what Blue says the capsule emulates


Blue Bottle with b-5 capsule (neumann/geffel m55k) $10,000 a pair

Groove tubes gt44 $400 a pair (on sale at guitar center)

Blue Bottle with b-0 capsule (ela m 251) $10,000 a pair

Groove tubes gt-33 $200 a pair (on sale at guitar center)

Blue Bottle with b-6 capsule (akg c12)$10,000 a pair

the guitar was a taylor 814 ce
Click to expand...
Wow! Thanks for this. It's cool that you even have the same guitar as me to do the test. My 814c is a 2002 (pre-ES), and I ordered it without electronics because I want to be able to experiment with various pick-ups/preamps in the coming years (I installed a PUTW system in it now) -- plus, I didn't want any holes.

I think you're playing is quite good. I really know nothing about mics and their different sounds (at this point), but I listened to all of them multiple times. Generally, for "cheap" mics, they all sounded pretty good to me -- even the $200 Groove Tubes. IMHO, I rank them as follows:

1. Blue Bottle with b-0 capsule (ela m 251) $10,000 a pair
2. Blue Bottle with b-6 capsule (akg c12)$10,000 a pair
3. Blue Bottle with b-5 capsule (neumann/geffel m55k) $10,000 a pair (This one had the clearest, most crisp sound to my ear, but I preferred what I heard from the b-0 and b-6 as a little more "warm" -- but still crisp and clear).
4. Groove tubes gt44 $400 a pair (on sale at guitar center)
5. Groove tubes gt-33 $200 a pair (on sale at guitar center).

I've heard of Groove Tubes, but not Blue Bottle. How much are they? Unless I'm misunderstanding, the Blue Bottles are cheap copies of the models you reference in brackets, right? Or am I wrong?

Thanks again for this.
 
Yep, you misunderstand him alright. The B.L.U.E. Bottle is the flagship condenser of the company, and yes it's a $5000 mic. I'll say it sounds pretty good for a cheap mic, compared, I guess, to a Manley reference. With interchangeable (and wicked expensive) capsules, the bottle is one of the finest mics in the world, and is frequently used by top recording studios. Note that the B.L.U.E. Baby bottle is a different animal, a quite nice $500 mic that will not often be mistaken for it's Grandad. Yes- he's got a $10,000 pair of mics. ("Let the envy flow, Luke") The wicked expensive mics listed in parentheses are the ones that the wicked expensive interchangeable capsules are rather good adaptations of. The Bottle is sort of a 2-ton swiss army knife.-Richie
 
Richard Monroe said:
Yep, you misunderstand him alright. The B.L.U.E. Bottle is the flagship condenser of the company, and yes it's a $5000 mic. I'll say it sounds pretty good for a cheap mic, compared, I guess, to a Manley reference. With interchangeable (and wicked expensive) capsules, the bottle is one of the finest mics in the world, and is frequently used by top recording studios. Note that the B.L.U.E. Baby bottle is a different animal, a quite nice $500 mic that will not often be mistaken for it's Grandad. Yes- he's got a $10,000 pair of mics. ("Let the envy flow, Luke") The wicked expensive mics listed in parentheses are the ones that the wicked expensive interchangeable capsules are rather good adaptations of. The Bottle is sort of a 2-ton swiss army knife.-Richie
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Whoa! Thanks for sorting that one out for me, Richie. And thanks also for your previous detailed, thoughtful response. I'm getting lots of food for thought. Not sure I'm any closer to knowing what to do yet though.
 
Cheeky Monkey said:
1) Wood combo: Sitka spruce top, east indian rosewood back and sides, mahogony neck with ebony fretboard and bridge.
2) RH style: Combo fingerpick (thumb/index finger) and strum. My style is folk/rock/blues.
3) Budget: To get started with my other entry-level gear, not more than $100 each new. I'll consider buying used, but I wonder about potential problems/damage.
Click to expand...

Your $300 overall budget (for a pair of SDs and one LD) limits your choices - a lot. Nonetheless, there are choices. SDs - Oktava MC-012, MXL 603s, Groove Tubes GT33 (if you can still find them on sale at GC). The LD is tough, as it has to fit your particular voice. Not an awful lot of choices here for $100. If you could strech your budget to $200-300 for the LD, you'll find many good choices.
 
Well, I considered replies here and did a lot more digging through this site and I've decided to go with a pair of MXL 603S to X/Y mic my Taylor, and an MXL V67G for vocals. These pretty-much fit the entry-level quality of the other gear in my chain as well as my budget, and will at least get me started. Based on all I've read, these mics seem pretty good and I should be able to turn out reasonable songs, assuming I learn to use all my gear properly, including room set-up. I'll have a lot more questions as I travel down this path.

Thanks for your time and all the advice. Much appreciated.
 
I use the 603s's on my acoustic (takamine fd-360sc) and I like 'em. I've done the x/y recording, but not much experimenting after that.

If you want to hear it, click the link in my signature, go to the "Music" page, and listen to the song "So Far Away". I think the acoustic sounds pretty good, but I'm sure I can get it a lot better with the gear I have.

Pre-amps will make a difference in the sound, too. In the clips I've got, they were run through a dmp3. I've sold that since (along with about everything else) and upgraded to a presonus firepod. Let the comparisons from my old gear to the firepod begin this weekend!
 
The 603's were a good choice for the budget. They'll keep you plenty satisfied working the guitar. Experiment... you'll find that they work rather nicely. Heck, you might even give them a try for "some" vocals. I ran a little short a while back tried them in stereo on a grade school vocal trio for a Christmas thingy. Sounded pretty good when mixed with the piano back up.
 
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