ART Tube MP....hmmmmmmm

Slackmaster2K

Slackmaster2K

Gone
So I played around with my Tube MP last night for the first time (really using it that is).

Is it usually kinda muddy...or mellow? It's like...well defined but not "crisp". I've got a Shure SM57 plugged into the XLR input and am running an unbalanced line into my soundcard. I have the input gain boost turned on (+20db) and the input pot at about 75%...then the output is at around 33%. I tried the phase switch and it's pretty much the same either way...of course.

Suggestions? So far I've only been using it to mic my acoustic...and the 57 is not the proper microphone so I'm thinking that might have a lot to do with it?

BTW, how do you know when the tube in this little sucker needs to be replaced? And why the hell didn't they put a power switch on it? :)

Slackmaster 2000
 
Hey Slackman,

A 57 on a acoustic won't cut it really. Next, I believe the unbalanced out is also a -10 out, so you are loosing headroom there.

I have had one of my MP's for about three years now and the tube is just fine. OUTPUT tubes go bad pretty quick, pre amp tubes last quite awhile. No power switch because you didn't pay for one..... :)

You gotta think about a good soundcard here soon friend. I know your budget is tough, but like I keep saying, you can only build as good as your tools will let you. I will not go into my whole "you gotta spend the bucks if you want that sound" thing here because I am sure you are tired of it by now, but, you gotta spend the bucks to get that sound!!! :)

Now, the Tube MP is a nice little box. Every recording you have heard from me uses that box almost exclusively. Don't get discouraged from a crappy sound card. When you get that extra $450, get a sound card with balanced I/O's and you WILL hear how the MP makes a difference.

I have a Soundcraft Ghost console. The Pro mic pre's on it will smoke a Mackie, ANY Mackie mic pre and grind the ash's in the ground every day of the week, and then spit on it, cuss at it, give it the finger, piss on it...etc.....The difference between the Ghost's mic pre's and the Tube MP is pretty noticable.

About warmth. Yes, the Tube MP is warm is certain situations. Sometimes that is the idea. But often I find that it is also much brighter sounding than other pre amps. Tubes will do that. But really, I think that you need to play around with where you are putting the mic. For acoustic guitar, try putting the mic up by your ear. Believe it or not, it really offers a very natural sound, although it lacks some accentuation sometimes. But with a 57, you are going to be dealing with proximity effects if it is farther away than 2-4" from the source.

Start looking around for a AT-4033. I tell ya, Audio Technica really knows how to make a mic that deals well with transients. I have tried so many other mics that sound pretty damn good with mellow stuff, but the AT-4033 and 4050 sound killer when the input is slammed. The way it handles mic distortion just plain sounds good. Also, these are some of the best sounding all around mics I have ever used, aside from a AKG 414, which would really start getting out of your price range.

Think about that new soundcard bud. And a good mic. 1k will get you sounding great.

Ed
 
Ed,
Is the Tube MP better than the mic-pre's on your Soundcraft Ghost, or just different? Do you prefer to use one over the other, or is it by the needs of the session that one becomes better than the other?
 
hey slacker! i have the same pre and mic but i havn't used them yet. if you know or find any valuable information about them please let me know. you can post here or e-mail me. thanks!
 
Definately the ART pre's have a much more open, accurate sound Fishmed. Transients are handled much better obviously because of the tube.

The Ghost pre's come in handy here and there for certain things. But I seldom find myself "prefering" them over the ART, or that they provide a better sound. They just sound quieter in comparison. Also, the high end just doesn't seem as extended. But when they do work better, boy is it better!!! The Ghost's pre's are very quiet and have a good amount of headroom. When you hit them hard, they don't get brittle sounding like Mackies do. They tend to warm up more when you hit them hard. Very cool.

Ed
 
Hey, Slack: "well-defined but not crisp". I love it! Bwaaaa-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha! I think you've just stumbled on what everybody else before now has called 'warm'. But my question for you is: Do you like the sound? My question is for me as well as for you - I have a practical application for a tube preamp if there's something in it. It's like this. I bought a Rode NT-1, and the initial shock of what it sounded like made me doubt whether I could use it and make it work. Now, I like it a *lot*, and I'm working at finding a way to *make* it work. It's January now. Get in touch in February after you've played with it awhile. Go on, be a sport.
 
You're right dobro, I do have to screw around with it more. But the sound I described was not warm, it was flat...or dull...or something. But I think it was my technique, not the box

My only "tube" experience is with tube guitar amps. And there "warm" to me means fat. Loud and crisp and full of body...not as brittle as a solid state...not so much annoying edge.

With this Tube MP however...the sound is very dullish. Like cranking all the mids on your stereo...yeah you can hear everything real well, but it's all kind of flat sounding.

UPDATE: I've been playing around a bit more and am having better luck. I found that it's better not to use the +20db switch but to utilize more of the output gain. Hey, is the tube on the output or input circuit? Maybe I should read the book...I just couldn't get past the first 20 spelling errors :)

Slackmaster 2000
 
one other little comment - most of the tube mic pres like the art, dbx, bellari, and behringer, come from the factory with chinese-made 12AX7's. most engineers i have talked this over with recommend that you immediately go out and get new tubes from Groovetubes.
 
Are you a Groovetubes salesman? :)

Seriously though, if you have or find any documentation on this I'd really like to read it. It'd be very interesting indeed.

Slackmaster 2000
 
slacker - mostly this has come out in discussions with various engineers, but here is a clip from one online article - an interview with ross giles, who makes tube equipment for adelaide (an australian audio electronics association):

"When you listen to new tube based equipment you are more than likely listening to a common tube called the 12AX7. The 12 AX7 triodeis a valve made by various manufacturers, each sounding different. The Chinese 12AX7 has a 'toppy' sound which is bright, very different to the Russian type made by Sovtek which has an even, richer sound.

"If you buy an Alesis or whatever they probably contain a Chinese 12AX7. You can take this out if you want and put in a better quality or different type 12AX7 and this will change the sound. Be very careful doing this; don't bend the valve pins and remove the valve with a gentle rocking movement. In my opinion the best sounding AX7s ever made were by Mullard and they stopped making them in the '70s and are now highly sought after. The prices for these are going up every day.

here is a really good article about the various 12ax7's that are available today: http://www.victoriaamp.com/week2.html (shuguang=chinese)
 
I have heard this too jnorman.
I have also heard that the Chinese units
(12AXunits) are being discontinued.
I am searching for GE and SYL units as well as the 55 series equivalants.

I have to tell you. I have owned the MP ART for 4 yrs and loved it when I recorded analog.
No that I have gone digital I am not happy.
So I have tried Bellari, HHB and now the Minprint EnVoice.
The 3rd is a winner. I kid you not
Has anyone tried it yet!!
 
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