ART tube mike pre-amps

theflyingfoal

New member
Guys

Can't afford too much for a pre-amp and have boiled down choice between ART Tube PAC and Art Tube MP Studio V3, ART being the best value in my price range from what I can gather.

Vocals mainly through audio technica and Rode mikes, ditto acoustic guitar and grand old Hohner accordian. Does anyone own either of these preamps? Pros and cons for each? All into Roland vs-880. Which will give the warmer sound, or are they about the same?

Cheers

The Foal
 
The Studio V3 is not bad. It's much better than the regular Tube MP, which is crap. I have no experience with the other one you mentioned.

Have you looked into M-Audio's preamps at all? Very good bang for buck.
 
Look into the Studio Projects VTB-1. It's less than $100 and much better for vocals (& just about everything else) than either you are currently looking at.
 
ART being the best value in my price range from what I can gather

By any chance have you been shopping at Long and McQuade, where they plug ART and Apex all day long? Don't listen to what those guys tell you. You can get the M-Audio DMP3 for $150, which is only $75 a channel. It's highly recommended by people around here, including me.
 
Best to avoid "tube" anything at this price. You can get a decent solid state preamp, or you can get a shoddy "tube" piece (which doesn't use the tube in the right circuit, they just throw it in there so advertising can use "tube warmth" in their ads).
 
thanks guys - what about PreSonus? Heard some good things about those too, also SMPro Audio TB 101. How do these compare to ART and VTB1 for warmth / application?
 
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theflyingfoal said:
thanks guys - what about PreSonus? Heard some good things about those too, also SMPro Audio TB 101. How do these compare to ART and VTB1 for warmth / application?

Of all the ones you've listed, I would go with the VTB-1, or the DMP3 that was also recommended. At this price, you will not get any appreciable "warmth" from a tube in the preamp. That's because, as mentioned above, those preamps have what is called a "starved-plate" tube design (sometimes called "toob"), where the tube is not actually receiving full voltage. The tubes in these pieces of gear do add a little distortion to the signal, which can be good or bad, depending on the application. The nice thing about the VTB-1 is that you can vary the amount of "toob" introduced into the signal from none (fully solid state) to nasty (lotsa distortion). Somewhere in between those extremes, there are some useful sounds. The VTB-1 also has lots of gain, an insert jack (for effects), variable impedance, etc. It's probably the most feature laden pre under $500.

The DMP3 is nice because, although it doesn't have a toob, it is 2 channels and provides plenty of nice clean gain.
 
In your price range, the DMP3 and VTB-1 is the only thing you should be looking at. They're both very clean and nice. Believe me, you don't want the "warmth" of the ART toob pres on every single track. They're nice for an effect every once in a while, or as a bass DI, but not as your primary pre.

The thing that makes the VTB-1 different than the ART is that, in solid-state mode, it's actually very clean. You can dial in the toob when you want an effected track, but otherwise you can leave it alone and it still sounds good.

I'd still recommend the DMP3 over the VTB-1, though, because it's cheaper per channel, and the toob effect isn't usually that great, IMO.
 
what about changing the tube in these units? A guy I knew said he picked up a cheap but sturdy pre-amp then switched the tube inside for a Telefunken one...not knowing anything about electronics is this actually possible? Might have been spinning me a yarn... :mad:
 
Changing the tube won't make a huge difference with those units.

BELIEVE ME, just avoid the ART for your first pre. I have the ART, and I really like it... for certain things, but I would never lay track after track after track with it. The DMP3 is a much better pre.
 
cominginsecond said:
Changing the tube won't make a huge difference with those units.

BELIEVE ME, just avoid the ART for your first pre. I have the ART, and I really like it... for certain things, but I would never lay track after track after track with it. The DMP3 is a much better pre.

Yeah, it definitely can improve the quality of the tube distortion, but if you don't want the tube distortion, then you're stuck with the ART's mediocre solid-state gain stages. Too many capacitors, cheap opamps . . . I heavily modded mine into a pleasant state of useability, but at your stage of electronics knowledge I wouldn't recommend that.
 
Hope you're not taking this input as a chops bustin' but, in my opinion, a good start would be to get the DMP3 or other squeaky clean mic pre and a pair of clean mics and for a little added flavor option, add a reasonably priced tube mic to your collection like an MXLV69. Once you've got a "flavored" mic pre, you're stuck with the sound it puts out.
 
If I was to have only one preamp I would be looking for a transparent one, the VTB1 is exceptionally quiet and fairly transparent when you turn off the toob crap also is built like a tank. DMP3 is really neat and quiet but a bit flimsy, your friends / customers will love the meters though ;)
 
Huh?

AT 49$ bucks for the original ART mp, I gotta disagree with almost everyone here, especially for use as a "first preamp".

These two one-man-band demo's of mine were composed and recorded (with a 16bit fostex VF16), during a 2 days time span, with ART tube MP exclusively on all tracks (around 30 on "throwing stones', and about 22 on "arena rock").

http://www.nowhereradio.com/melody/singles

I have the VTB-1, as well as other preamps that sound similar to the DMP3.
They sound different, but they dont really blow away anything, least of all the ART. The ART is a pretty useful box; tracking at a speed beyond my skill level, and the noisy HVAC heat recovery system that sits in the basement where i currently track have way more to do with the sound than a cheap preamp! Just look at the size of the freaking thing!
 

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teainthesahara said:
AT 49$ bucks for the original ART mp, I gotta disagree with almost everyone here, especially for use as a "first preamp".

I don't hate the ART by any means, but here's my analysis: the tube costs too much money for the design. It's probably a $3 part for them, plus the cost of the socket, and some PSU parts as well. If that money was instead spend on the solid state side, they could have upgraded to better opamps and sprung for a few polyester caps in some critical places. Thus I would expect any $50/channel solid state pre to easily outperform the ART.

The tube accounts for about half the unit's gain, so if you don't want the tube distortion on a mic that needs more than 40 dB of gain, you're stuck.

I would say the ART is a useful second pre in the $50 range, but a cleaner stereo pre shoud be your bread & butter.
 
theflyingfoal said:
http://www.dbxpro.com/minipre.htm

what about this one - has anyone tried it out?

Dude, if you absolutely are unwilling to spend more than $50-60 on a pre, just get the ART, as teainthesahara has suggested. I think you would be happier with one of the other pres that have been named, but it's your money and you don't seem too interested in our suggestions.
 
mshilarious said:
I don't hate the ART by any means, but here's my analysis: the tube costs too much money for the design. It's probably a $3 part for them, plus the cost of the socket, and some PSU parts as well. If that money was instead spend on the solid state side, they could have upgraded to better opamps and sprung for a few polyester caps in some critical places. Thus I would expect any $50/channel solid state pre to easily outperform the ART.

The tube accounts for about half the unit's gain, so if you don't want the tube distortion on a mic that needs more than 40 dB of gain, you're stuck.

I would say the ART is a useful second pre in the $50 range, but a cleaner stereo pre shoud be your bread & butter.

That is an interesting way of thinking about it, and it makes good sense.
The question I would raise is what does "easily outperform" really mean. My tracks, which have been drenched in ART are not pro, but for what they are, they dont suck either. I don't feel that my VTB-1, or a cleaner stereo pre would have made much of a difference at all. I guess what im saying is that the "tube" sound you get stuck with is not unworkable, nor problematic at mix-down, and for some things (DI bass, syths etc) is even desirable. Truth be told, I like my symetrix channel strip alot better, with its cool sounding EQ, and usuable compressor!
 
teainthesahara said:
That is an interesting way of thinking about it, and it makes good sense.
The question I would raise is what does "easily outperform" really mean.

I can't really say. The specs would certainly show it, the ART at 60dB gain is going to have a very large number for THD. ART says 0.1% typical, but doesn't say what typical is. The DMP3 is 0.00035%, which they say is at minimum gain. Both numbers are thus BS, but I'll bet the ratio is the same or even larger as you increase gain.

But that distortion can sound nice.
 
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