Novation KS4\KS5 or Supernova II ??

Funky1200

New member
Hi i have been looking at the KS5 as it seems to be a very good price at the moment however i have heard bad things about the sounds "clicking" ?? the alternative would be a SUpernova II rack or synth - can anyone give an oppinion on whether to go KS5 new or supernova II old ??

Thanks

:confused:
 
Funky-

Hey! A topic I'm actually qualified to respond to! These are few and far between.

I own the KS Rack and JUST got a SuperNova II.

First off, both boards sound VERY good. Novation has done a good job on their analog modelling and both synths have a clean, strong sound that cuts through nicely.

The KS rack definitely has an issues with clicking. According to Novation, this is due to voice stealing and occurs when you play dense passages in multi mode. My experience is that it doesn't require particularly dense passages to get the problem. I have not had this problem in part mode.

To me, unless you plan on keeping your parts insanely simple, or never plan on using the synth multi-timbrally, this alone is a problem that makes the synth of very limited use.

The SuperNova II, on the other hand, and I just got it about a week ago so I'm still exploring, is incredible! It has tons of dedicated controls which allow you to get to all the basics easily. For most areas, there are additional controls that can be accessed through menus. This is an elegant method of programming, plus the synth just looks wicked cool!

The board sounds amazing- rich and full and powerful. I've got a pretty full arsenal of synths now, some of them you like, some of them have certain applications where they excel, but their very limited in what they do well. Fro me, the SuperNova II is one of those boards that I doubt that I will ever tire of. I think it's capable of generating a wide range of timbres and will fit in to almost any kind of music I'm likely to make. It's a keeper!

That said, there are a couple of things that should be pointed out. First- the keyboard. For starters, I love the FEEL of the keys. The black keys have a little bit of texture to them and all the keys are unusually long which contributes to the classy feel. However, for whatever reason, the keys are not full width. Playing it by itself, I haven't found this to be of major concern, in fact, I hadn't even noticed it until I got it home and tried to put it on a stand aligned with my KARMA.

The only other thing I've noticed so far is that unless you are either standing up or tilt the keyboard, it is difficult to see the display or see all the lights on the buttons. This might be because I have it behind another keyboard, but I think it might be an issue.

Of course, the SuperNovaII is a lot more money than the KS series, so you are going to have to take that into account as well, but if you can get one, I'd go for the SuperNovaII without hesitation.

That said...anyone interested in buying my KS Rack???

Ted
 
Wow ! Good Reply !

Ok been looking into it for a few weeks now and this is my chosen list of gear - well synths anyway and considering this is my start up kit i think i will be ok but oppinions definately welcome..

Again i will be making House Trance Ambient Chill out music so bare that in mind.

Kork Triton LE ( i have an akai Z4 for the sampling )
Roland JP 8000
Novation A station ( i hear this baby is amazing a cut down supernova II )
Proteus 2000 ( this has been recommended to me and its a SH unit )

what do you think for sounds ? will this be a good choice of synths modules ?
 
Funky-

These kinds of questions are always hard to answer as it's a very subjective matter what sounds are right for someone.

I have a Proteus 2500 which has, I believe, the same sound set as the 2000, but adds a sequencer and a faster, 24 bit processor. I also had for a while a XL-1 Turbo. Personally, I found the XL-1 hard to use. The interface is the same for all of the proteus units and I didn't like trying to work with 4 knobs to control 16 parameters. Very unintuitive, at least for me, anyway. The 2500 has a lot more real-time controls, but I still find the interface confusing and, frankly, it's very unattractive which, sub-conciously, makes me less inclined to go beyond the presets. My impression of E-mu sounds is that they're not particularly inspiring. They don't have the bite or edge of some units, more meat and potatoes. Still they offer a lot of bang for the buck and, I suspect, that's why E-mu has had good success selling them. It's also good that the units are expandable, though the boards seem overpriced to me. The good news is (or maybe it's bad) that I think E-mu is discontinuing/has discontinued most if not all of the Proteus line as well as their keyboards (depending on your budget and needs, you might look for a deal on a PK-6 keyboard-it's the same synthesis engine again with less polyphony, but better DACs, but you get a keyboard-albeit not a great one). One other thing you might consider for your Proteus, and I haven't used this myself, only found it today is this- http://www.saxonite.co.uk/proteum/proteum.stm Anything that makes programming clearer is a big help. Excuse my ignorance, but what is a "SH" unit?

I've never had the JP8000, but I know it's a solid board for your chosen genre. Personally, I have come to dislike Roland gear in general. Every single thing I've ever bought from them has had some little niggle that really seems to affect my experience with the device. But, that's just me and I seem to be a very small minority.

You can't go wrong with the Triton- which version of the LE are you looking at? Try to get at least the 76 if not the 88. I highly, highly, highly recommend that you invest the money in this- http://www.karma-lab.com/
If you spend the time to learn this software, you will be absolutely blown away. I own a KARMA and it is, without doubt, the deepest synth I have ever had. The MW software basically adds, through your computer, the KARMA function to your Triton. Also, the latest version's Virtual Midi Port allows you to send the KARMA data to any device in your setup.

I don't know much about the A-Station. The obvious things I see are the reduction in polyphony (from 24 to 8) and it sure looks like it would be difficult to program from the tiny panel. The knobs are right on top of one another! I suppose that all these choices are related to budget. One thing though, the Supernova II is not being supported by Novation which means that you should be able to find some great deals on them (I got mine as a demo unit for only $899.00 at Sam Ash).

I hope all of this helps.

Let me know if there are any other questions I can answer.

Ted
 
ted thanks for the info..

I have just purchased the Triton LE 61 due to budget but still for a vary good price new. I have had a quick look at the karma software and it does look very good.. I will have to see if i can stretch to that later !

Oh "SH" is second hand.

Will check out that proteus link now -

Gary

;)
 
Gary-

Just get the MW software! I promise you won't be disappointed! Stephen Kay is a genius, mad scientist! lol Once you wrap your head around the software, it will take you places you would never think of on your own.

Download the demo. Believe me, this is not easy software, but you will be rewarded with all kinds of amazing sounds.

OT- are there any KARMA owners out there? What a misunderstood, underrated, poorly marketed piece of incredible technology this instrument is! I would highly recommend it to anyone who is looking for a real instrument that will grow and expand with you. It will demand a lot of effort to get the most out of it and it's not for everyone but, wow! It is one axe I will NEVER part with.

Ted
 
i make trance, house and ambient too using nothing but a supernova and cubase with halion...
the supernova is capable of producing any sound you can imagine... it's awesome... i can't even begin to explain just how complex and yet very intuitive it is to work with...
i really don't need another synth in any way... but at some point i'll prolly get myself a hardware sampler and sequencer for drums and shit...

don't drown yourself in gear instantaneously btw... it's better to learn how to get the most out of little gear than scratching the surface of alot of it...
 
Supernova II

Keyboard Magazine gave the Novation Supernova II their KEYBUY Award when reviewing it January, 2001 issue. Here's the review online:

http://archive.keyboardonline.com/demos/supernova2/index.shtml

I personally bought it because of their review. Here's my opinion after having owned it a few weeks, along with one other's given on Epinions.com:

http://www.epinions.com/inst-Synthesizers-Supernova_II/display_~reviews

- - - - - -

I did not like the Karma when diddling with it, and their video that was sent to me did not impress me either. My opinion, of course.

I own a Kurzweil K2500XS that, regardless of the newer specs by Korg, Roland and Yamaha's workstations... they simply do not compare. Kurzweil's new flagship is the K2600XS. This breed of machines, unlike the Novation, are capable of the most realistic sounds, in addition to many other types of synthesis architecture.

You get machines like the Novation, Nord, and Waldorf to approach music for the reasons you listed above, Ambience, Trance, Groove. There's soemthing about subtractive synthesis that is just plain wonderful (analog) that makes making those types of sounds easy, fun, and addicting.

Back in 1985, I bought what I think had to be the greatest true analog synth ever, and kick myself many times for ever having sold it - the Oberheim Matrix-12.

Oh, lastly... I have to remind myself that a great many of the "musicians" we find on website forums like this (comuter users) may actually be doing most of their work on a computer, which brings out totally different language and ideas. I'm most at home on a piano, preferably Steinway.
 
I did not like the Karma when diddling with it, and their video that was sent to me did not impress me either. My opinion, of course.

Of all the instruments I've owned, the KARMA is probably the deepest. Unfortunately, because of its complexity and, perhaps, bad marketing, I don't think it ever got the respect it deserved. When Steven Kay added the MW software allowing access to ALL the parameters of the GEs (Generated Effects) and the ability to create your own, plus essentially doubling the KARMA function to 8 GEs when it's connected to a computer, he raised the bar to a level that's simply unbelievable. I doubt that I will ever fully understand or come close to exploiting all the potential of this system.

I agree, BTW, the video wasn't very good! lol

Ted
 
Would be cool if we

Ted,

Your posts make me wish that we keyboard buyers were able to have like a major "show n tell" somehow. Individual owners (not manufacturers) who have owned and used their keyboards for several months, who then got to show it off to other keyboard players. Sounds like KARMA is awesome.

Who is Steve Kay, and what is MW?

Sounds like it really is a hot keyboard. I'd love to hear you, play it and exploit your ideas on it. Truly!

:)

Todd
 
First, a correction to my post- His name is Stephen (I always do that!) Kay and he's the creator of the KARMA function (Kay Algorithmic Realtime Music Architecture). Korg licensed the technology from him which he spent 7 years developing. I'll explain more about KARMA MW in a bit.

First an overview of the KARMA function. It's hard to explain concisely. Some people see it as a glorified arpeggiator, but that doesn't really do it justice. It's an interactive REALTIME music creation process. Through the use of "Generated Effects" which each have around 400 parameters controlling elements like harmony, rhythm complexity, tone, effects, pan, pitch, humanize, MIDI control changes, etc. you can use these GEs to control different parts of a COMBI and up to 16 of the parameters can be controlled in realtime by knobs and buttons on the KARMA. The KARMA has 1190 GEs in it as it comes from the factory. In a COMBI you can have up to 4 KARMA modules operating at the same time. You can freely assign GEs to different parts in a COMBI.

That alone makes for an unbelievable amount of sonic power. The KARMA MW software ups the ante significantly. The "MW" stands, I believe, for Music Workstation. Basically, with the MW software you effectively double the KARMA function as you can have 4 KARMA modules in the synth and another 4 on your computer, plus the software now gives you access to ALL parameters of the GEs and the ability to create your own. On top of all of that, they added a "Virtual MIDI Driver" (VMD) which allows you to easily send all of the generated MIDI output to other MIDI devices or your sequencer.

If you have a Triton, you can add the KARMA functionality to it with the KARMA Triton software.

Eventually, I believe that they will release a version called KARMA Creator which will offer the KARMA function to any MIDI device. I don't have any idea when we will see that, however.

Check out www.karma-lab.com to learn more about KARMA and all that it is capable of. Great site! Oh, and what might be the coolest thing about KARMA is that, on the forums there, you can quite easily communicate directly with Mr. Kay. Ask questions, make suggestions, get help or just talk to him (he's pretty cool!) I truly don't know of any other product where you can actually speak to the inventor on an ongoing basis.

Hope this piques people's interest. KARMA is quite an accomplishment and deserves more recognition.

Ted
 
oh yeah, btw... if you don't already have loads of effect boxes, the supernova is definitely a great bargain... i don't believe there's any other keyboard on the market with an effects section of this size yet...
 
My synth recommendations

Wow ! Good Reply !

Ok been looking into it for a few weeks now and this is my chosen list of gear - well synths anyway and considering this is my start up kit i think i will be ok but oppinions definately welcome..

Again i will be making House Trance Ambient Chill out music so bare that in mind.

Kork Triton LE
Roland JP 8000
Novation A station ( i hear this baby is amazing a cut down supernova II )
Proteus 2000 ( this has been recommended to me and its a SH unit )

what do you think for sounds ? will this be a good choice of synths modules ?


Matter of taste, of course but i wouldn't take any of those. :p
Instead i would go for:

- Waldorf Q (rack if you need to avoid kb models, if not i'd take kb because it has more knobs)
- Nord rack 2/2X Unique character, beautiful bleeps and blops.
- DSI Evolver (MEK/PEK if knobs count more than smaller space.)
- Yamaha FS1R Yamahas most advanced FM synth.
- Yamaha TG-77 Yamahas second most advanced FM synth module.
- Ensoniq Fizmo rack
- Shruthi-1 Monosynth, digital OSC's, analog filter. Huge amount of OSC variations.
- Waldorf XT (XT over MW2 because of knobs and MW2 over MW1 because of more filter modes -even though MW1 has analog filters. Analog is not automatically better..)

TVR @ Soundcloud
 
Hi guys,
need help with my KS-5, screem shows values without do anything, i touche anything in the ks5, but the scree shues values like if I were doing something.
thanx for your help.
 
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