Making a digital piano sound slightly out of tune

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GJP1979

New member
Hi,

I'd like to know some simple techniques for making the recorded sound of a digital piano a little less "perfect". I'm not sure if "detuning" is the correct term. Most acoustic pianos are slightly out of tune with themselves and this is what makes them sound more real and interesting, in my opinion. My digital piano (a Casio Privia) can be tuned up or down, but doing this still keeps all the notes in relative tune. I'm aware there are MIDI and software option for using different sound patches, but before I go that route I'd like to try something simpler. Would adding a touch of chorus or delay in the right fashion help to make the sound a little more "real"?

Thanks!
 
One quick way is after you record your MIDI, take the pitch wheel and adjust it slightly. This would probably need to be done with values since you would want it at a very slight level. In your DAW, look at the automation areas, there should be one for pitch/bend. Use that to make slight adjustments, should work if you know how to edit that part of the MIDI.
 
I know it doesn't help you but Pianoteq VSTI lets you adjust the "age" of the "piano" via a slider, which has the detuning effect you're seeking. Very cool. And the interface gets dirtier the older you make it.:)
 
If you have Reaper, this is something you can try. Actually, I expect most DAWs would be able to do this.

Record your piano audio.

Add ReaPitch to the recorded piano track as an effect.

Shift the pitch up or down by around a semitone.

Adjust the balance between dry (unpitch-shifted) and wet (pitch-shifted) to get the right level of out-of-tunedness you want.
 
So the tricky part is: do you want the entire piano detuned by a certain amount, or do you want to detune individual strings? If you want maximum realism, you'd want consistent, per-string detuning, which seems really complex.
Each note on a piano has 2-3 strings, right? So you'd want to separate each note (e.g. all Middle Cs, all D4s, etc.) to it's own channel and then apply the effect gecko suggested on each of those. (e.g. C4 consists of 1 in-tune C4, one sharp by 3 cents, and one sharp by 5 cents)
Oh... the low strings consist of one bass string and an octave, don't they?
 
VomitHatSteve said:
So the tricky part is: do you want the entire piano detuned by a certain amount, or do you want to detune individual strings? If you want maximum realism, you'd want consistent, per-string detuning, which seems really complex.
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This is what I was thinking. Simply modulating the pitch isn't going to do it as you need one string to remain out of tune during its decay while other notes are played. Really, you need each note to be out of tune with itself since each hammer strikes two or three strings.

There has to be a sample set that's out of tune like this. That would be the rational solution.
 
With ReaPitch you can blend out-of-tune with in-tune to get that sense of a note being out of tune with itself.

However, with old pianos, the notes are not all out of tune by the same amount. Some will be really bad, some not so bad, and some might even still be in tune. Organising that would take a bit more creativity. One way would be to record a midi track, then split it into about four or five tracks based on note values, load up a VSTi piano and reapitch on each, and vary the pitch adjustment on each.
 
It sounds like you're talking about honky tonk sounding piano, not necessarily detuning all. A lot of them have a "honkytonk" sound. If yours doesn't, you might be able to find one...
 
GJP1979 said:
Hi,

I'd like to know some simple techniques for making the recorded sound of a digital piano a little less "perfect".

Thanks!
Click to expand...

A piano has several strings per note so when it's out of tune you could be hearing in tune, flat and sharp all together.

A chorus plugin with main voice untouched and two additional voices notched up and down a few cents should get you close.
Disable any delay, if you can.
 
There's a product called Polar in my rack. Don't know if you can get an AAX version, but it would do exactly what Steen is talking about...among other things :)
 
Pitch modulation effects aren't going to make it sound like an out of tune piano, they're going to make it sound like a pitch modulated piano. The strings on an out of tune piano don't change pitch, they are each off pitch by a constant amount. That has to be built into the sample unless there's a MIDI way to make individual strings on each note out of tune with each other.

Imperfect Samples ® - Brasted Broken Upright Piano for PC & Mac (VST | AU | Kontakt | EXS24)
 
Polar doesn't pitch modulate (well, yes, it does, but that's not what I'm talking about). It blends a center tone with one to two other tones that are constant pitch corrected (by 1/2 step or by cent or both). So you can play a note and it plays that note plus one that's off by +7 cents plus one that's off by -12 cents (or whatever values you'd like. They are blendable, panable, and modulateable...man I don't think any of those are actual words.

View attachment Polar Piano.mp3

Well, the MP3 player doesn't ever seem to work for me, but the link is to a 16 second file. 1st half without...2nd half with Polar engaged.
 
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bouldersoundguy said:
Pitch modulation effects aren't going to make it sound like an out of tune piano, they're going to make it sound like a pitch modulated piano. The strings on an out of tune piano don't change pitch, they are each off pitch by a constant amount. That has to be built into the sample unless there's a MIDI way to make individual strings on each note out of tune with each other.
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\No, pitch modulation won't make a piano sound out of tune. That's why you mix pitch modulated with unpitch modulated.
 
gecko zzed said:
\No, pitch modulation won't make a piano sound out of tune. That's why you mix pitch modulated with unpitch modulated.
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Right. I don't think that will sound like an out of tune piano, I think it will sound like a chorus effect on a piano. But I admit I'd probably give it a try if I had to make a piano sound out of tune.
 
bouldersoundguy said:
Right. I don't think that will sound like an out of tune piano, I think it will sound like a chorus effect on a piano. But I admit I'd probably give it a try if I had to make a piano sound out of tune.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I'm not recommending any modulation effects. The plugin I had in mind with my description was Waves doubler but there are plenty that do the same thing.
Each additional voice is offset by so many cents. I think it might actually have modulation capabilities but I've never used them.

That is exactly what you'd get with an out of tune piano because each of the strings (per note) would be out of tune by slightly different amounts - It's a chorus effect, same as with 12 string guitar.
The bit that's not realistic is that a chorus affect will alter each piano note by exactly the same amount whereas a slightly out of tune piano will most likely have great notes, bad notes and terrible notes.
 
Did anyone listen to my sample? I was trying to show how...
The easy answer is to use a single pitch sifter for all the notes from A1 to F#3 and dual from there to C8. Remember the first octave (A0 to G#1 has only one string per note.)
Different manufacturers do it different, so this is never a perfect number. Most have the bottom octave with one string. 21-24 notes above that with two and the rest with three. :)
 
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