Korg Oasys >>> time will tell <<<

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Anthony

8-bit gen. (Volken)
'

Decades without products before time are always a promise of sterile innovation into the future.

...Fairlight,Synclavier...extracted their technology merits even to these days.

Where and when would Emu,Akai even begin to shape this technology if they haven't seen the promise of Farilight?
Just a one corner of the creative side, certainly the story could be told even before 2 of the big boys.

I mention this because saturation of present offer in world of consumer and pro equipment is making (sadly) life to such machines impossible.

Like Tour De Force car design a prototype we know to never shape in reality but nevertheless presents direction how next models will gaze into production.

One of such creations was Korg Oasys, Korg presented a promising open architecture and same brought great fame to later Trinity...Triton series. I remember talking to one of designers (Bowen,Bowers?) at Music Show, and even then I was told that Oasys is just that. Presentation of innovation Korg is yet to offer in future products. We both agreed what industry already knows today that even financial cycles of securing the parts for production and support for next 5-8 years would make more then sobering boost to abandon any idea of making alone product as Oasys.

Well, early steps to this year brought Oasys as full production ready instruments. From one side I'm happy because landmark products are necessary for future innovation and if Korg manages to actually cover production expenses and make this success, this is fantastic news.

But, I fear this is very dangerous step in reality where market can no longer realistically appreciate this price range of instruments (remember hardware samplers) today when my beloved Emu is nothing but music card maker for Creative, I think my doubts are not exaggerated.

Many could financially endure this with even greater aplomb then Korg, but they feel this is somewhat of utopia, these days when recording cards are less then 100$.

If Korg fails, this demise would even more cement bravery of others makers who also considered such creations, and I repeat for real progress product like this are important.

As ex. CMI3 owner I hope Korg will make Oasys as viable success,lets all hope so.

Good thing is that present Oasys is slightly less cut version from 1995. Oasys, and making almost as half reduced in cost as projected with first version ;)

Oasys 2005


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I too hope Oasys succeeds with a second lease in life. I think the original was the right product at the wrong time. The design philosophy was right, but by the time the prototypes were born and ready for mass production, the market had already shifted dramatically. I do believe this second generation will be more successful however.

Seems as though the software market has eclipsed (much as the hardware market has, for that matter). Sure products will still hit the PC/Mac market, many of them will be excellent, but not in leaps and bounds that they were in the last 10 years (I can't really think of anything else one could need from software now that doesn't already exist, other than the ever elusive virtual singer, and perhaps neurologically controlled software synths complete with Human-Brain interface via firewire of course).

I think for many that have been caught in the vortex of terror that is the software industry, especially the old school hardware folks, would be happy to welcome the promise of an all-inclusive hardware studio centerpiece, such as the Korg Oasys or Alesis FusionSynth. Especially if it makes use of the technologies and conveniences offered up by their software counterparts, to offer more fluid workflows (Anybody who has sequenced data on any workstation via buttons knows what I'm talking about here).

I for one am excited by these new products as they have the potential to streamline many peoples setups, especially those who frequently go from studio to stage and back on a regular basis. I hope these synths succeed or at the vary least spin-off a new generation of hardware (Much as the original Oasys did), so that us hardware freaks can continue to have new and exciting products to drool on ourselves about. My 2 cents :)
 
The Oasys will probably be appreciated by the very few buyers that can afford it. I'm sure Korg is well aware that they won't be shipping large numbers of this unit. That's probably one reason for the high price, they have to make their money back on relatively few synths sold.

In all honesty, I wasn't wowed by it. But maybe it was just the demo guy that didn't grab me. The Oasys sounded, for lack of better words, like just another synth. A great sounding synth, but from the demos I didn't get why this should be so expensive.

It looks great in person, and the pop up screen is pretty. It's an impressive looking unit, and it does sound great.

I owned the Oasys card for a while, so I'm familiar with the synth. I loved my Oasys card, but Korg dropped support early and didn't make it compatible with Mac OSX. The synth version will obviously not have that problem.

I'd expect Korg to already have cut down versions of this synth in their design pipeline. At the time I owned the Oasys card, I thought they should have offerred a one space hardware rack version of it, to lessen its dependency on a computer host. Hopefully, Korg will do that now. If I purchase a new Oasys it will be in a relatively affordable rack mount form.
 
Before knowing the price I was very interested too in this expensive "toy"...
I was prepared to spend up to 5500 $ for it, but 8500 for the 88 key is ridicolous.

Korg have to think that is right that the oasys will replace many hardware (a 16 track digital recorder=2000$ a synth workstation=3000$ an organ emulator=2000$ a virtual analog synth=2000 for top of the line) but the true is that they spend only for one hardware for one unit, so the rest of costs are merely software programmation.... in conclusion IMHO is pure speculation.

I think that korg could (seriously) sell this unit at half the price and then have a stellar margin of earning...

sorry for the rant, but I was very very sad when I saw the street price on the net... :mad:
 
I'm sure the price will come down. Prices are usually set high in first run products like this, and the initial market is almost always aimed at the elitist few that have that kind of money burning holes in their wallets (Remember how much a fully spec'd Kurz. K2500 used to cost???). I'd like to see a cut-down 61-key version of this without the big screen, but with the same synth engine, KARMA 2, and perhaps the new controllers. And maybe just a couple of audio tracks. It's a shame that this thing doesn't offer legacy support for every other add-on card that KORG has made over the last several years too.
 
Atterion said:
I'm sure the price will come down. Prices are usually set high in first run products like this, and the initial market is almost always aimed at the elitist few that have that kind of money burning holes in their wallets (Remember how much a fully spec'd Kurz. K2500 used to cost???).

I hope so too!!!
personally I haven't experience in this very high end products so I could not pronunce myself...
but modern keys usually don't have more then 10% variations till they are discontinued.
maybe for a product such this, considering the fast evolving of personal computers (because basically the open system based on software that they clam is nothing else that a pc with a dedicated OS), it's going to became more inexpensive in few time
 
The original Oasys was a soundcard, and a great one at that. However, it was expensive, and Korg stopped supporting it too early. I owned one for a while and it was basically a Triton on a soundcard, a virtual hardware synth, a soundcard supporting ADAT I/O, and also a complete fx system. Really a great invention if only they had kept up on the drivers for it. They never made OSX drivers for the Mac for example, and that's why I had to sell mine.
 
SonicAlbert said:
The original Oasys was a soundcard, and a great one at that. However, it was expensive, and Korg stopped supporting it too early. I owned one for a while and it was basically a Triton on a soundcard, a virtual hardware synth, a soundcard supporting ADAT I/O, and also a complete fx system. Really a great invention if only they had kept up on the drivers for it. They never made OSX drivers for the Mac for example, and that's why I had to sell mine.

That's not quite true Albert.

There was original Oasys >>> Blue Bomber <<< much like the present one self contained machine, more powerful in terms of synthesis (more algorithms) but they had to cut down the present Oasys due to more reasonable value.

I wrote very extensively...about my first experience with Oasys : > h e r e <


If you haven't already participated in this post earlier I would understand your comment, but now :confused:
 
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Anthony said:
If you haven't already participated in this post earlier I would understand your comment, but now :confused:

I don't understand what you are saying by that. I think my statements are consistent.

That blue bomber thing never made it to production if I remember correctly, it was a prototype. The first Oasys to actually be released to the public was the sound card. It went though a few software revisions and then support was dropped. The new $8,000 Oasys keyboard is basically an updated version of the soundcard, but this time with its own hardware.

The soundcard I thought was brilliant, but I was underwhelmed by the keyboard. mostly because I didn't really see it breaking too much new ground from the sound card. Seems like they could have put the soundcard into a hardware keyboard a lot more quickly and cheaply than they did. I mean, they had the sound card all finished and it was great. Korg makes great keyboards that are great, so why the big delay and big expense?

Not to say that the new Oasys keyboard isn't impressive, it certainly is. I just was underwhelmed by it in that it sounded a lot like everything else I've been hearing for a few years. They could have popped an Oasys card into a Karma body and done it for $2,500, and had a killer keyboard a lot quicker.
 
SonicAlbert said:
I don't understand what you are saying by that. I think my statements are consistent.

...mhmm, ...consider you would insist on such strict formulation " made it to production"

Well that is partly true, but the essence of original creation was reflected into all this present working results.


SonicAlbert said:
That blue bomber thing never made it to production if I remember correctly, it was a prototype. The first Oasys to actually be released to the public was the sound card. It went though a few software revisions and then support was dropped. The new $8,000 Oasys keyboard is basically an updated version of the soundcard, but this time with its own hardware.

Even before "Blue Bomber" there was a previous source that was later embodied in what we call today Oasys. > Original Synth-kit project was designed by John Powell at Stanford U. as a model for checking algorithmic models, The synth-kit was sold or licensed through a company called CCRM to Yamaha, who had at the time a majority stake in Korg (1988-1996 or so) and as a Japanese courtesy shared it with Korg. Yamaha developed its own algorithms for the VL-1 project and Korg for the Oasys. The consensus is that Korg developed the better sounding algorithms <

When you say Blue Bomber was not released, that is only because they couldn't secure permission form Japan to actually market the same. They were afraid due to the projected cost the same would reflect so they abandoned the very thought.


SonicAlbert said:
Not to say that the new Oasys keyboard isn't impressive, it certainly is. I just was underwhelmed by it in that it sounded a lot like everything else I've been hearing for a few years. They could have popped an Oasys card into a Karma body and done it for $2,500, and had a killer keyboard a lot quicker.


I you have seen the link I provided and my opinion about the same...
I had lots of criticism for lack of implementing more algorithms.

Also, it is sad what the very promise of Oasys has come to :(

From mother of all synthesis to mother workstation

It is in many ways unfinished and present sale is actually purchasing more development as they go along. As former BMW high ranked chief once said : "It is less expensive for us to sale unfinished production car then to wait for mature result, because competition would eat us all... as we perfect them"

As ex. Fairlight owner (Series III) we had several discussions with Stephen Key (also owner of CMI3) could he honestly say that Oasys sounds better then Fairlight whose PSU alone is larger then most of Oasys elements together. He was honest, claiming he can't be sure. That is understandable, after all, he works for Korg, so that was honest and indicative reply.

To really output designated specs, Oasys would have to have outboard PSU, and very selected one to say least. As for matter of Synthesys Karla's KYMA would remain still undisputed worlds best self synthesis machine available today.

Does it sounds like a Fairlight or Synclavier? (6400,9600) not quite, even with higher rate, it is hard to fight with splendor of cost no object design, where presently no technology can imitate "cheaper" way of extracting how great sounding hardware was made when only the best results could do.

Kyma isn't cheap either, but Kyma delivers and embodies every available syntheses without any excuses.....and sounds better then Oasys (although these are rather qualitative levels between quality)

Indeed, the process could be easily (Oasys) transferred to any modern present PC, but they made sure to seriously protect the same. But this also speaks about merits of Oasys real innovation, and makes me a bit disappointed. However, on positive side, it really behaved as if there is no OS running behind the whole process :)

Is that alone worth the money, well that is for each of us to decide
 
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Anthony said:
Original Synth-kit project was designed by John Powell at Stanford U. as a model for checking algorithmic models, The synth-kit was sold or licensed through a company called CCRM to Yamaha, who had at the time a majority stake in Korg (1988-1996 or so) and as a Japanese courtesy shared it with Korg.

This isn't quite correct.

"CCRM" sounds like you mean "CCRMA," which is the computer music research program at Stanford. The licensing entity for CCRMA's synthesis-related patents is Staccato Systems; the joint licensing entity that Staccato created with Yamaha is Sondius.

SynthKit was originally developed by Steve O'Connell at Korg R&D.

I'm guessing that the Stanford program you're thinking of is SynthBuilder, which has no relationship at all to SynthKit (or to any of our work at Korg):

http://ccrma.stanford.edu/software/synthbuilder/

SynthBuilder (again, no relationship to Korg's SynthKit) was developed primarily by Nick Porcaro (http://www-ccrma.stanford.edu/~nick/). I'm not aware of someone named John Powell being associated with CCRMA.

Anthony said:
When you say Blue Bomber was not released, that is only because they couldn't secure permission form Japan to actually market the same. They were afraid due to the projected cost the same would reflect so they abandoned the very thought.

Not entirely correct. It also wasn't finished.

Anthony said:
Also, it is sad what the very promise of Oasys has come to :(

From mother of all synthesis to mother workstation

The current OASYS is far more powerful, and far better-sounding, than either of its predecessors.

All three OASYS products (so far!) have had differences from one another, but they also all share the same, core ideas: expandable software-based synthesis, physical modeling, and exceptional audio quality.

OASYS offers a number of important advancements over OASYS PCI, including significant improvements to the synthesis algorithms, greatly increased number of voices, and dynamic voice allocation.

It doesn't currently have as many different synthesis algorithms as OASYS PCI - but that's what EXi are for.

Although it’s based on the same core ideas as the original OASYS keyboard, the 2005-model OASYS uses an entirely new architecture. In comparison to the original, the new OASYS offers significant improvements to the synthesis algorithms, polyphony, and future expandability.

Anthony said:
To really output designated specs, Oasys would have to have outboard PSU, and very selected one to say least.

OASYS has a pretty hefty power supply - open it up and look! It's not a simple PC power supply.

Anthony said:
Kyma isn't cheap either, but Kyma delivers and embodies every available syntheses without any excuses.....and sounds better then Oasys (although these are rather qualitative levels between quality)

Have you demo'd the two side-by-side?

Kyma and OASYS are very different products, with very different target users.

Anthony said:
Indeed, the process could be easily (Oasys) transferred to any modern present PC, but they made sure to seriously protect the same. But this also speaks about merits of Oasys real innovation, and makes me a bit disappointed.

I don't really understand this point. The primary innovations of the OASYS project have always been in the software realm.

Best regards,

Dan Phillips
 
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Dan,

Read my post at HC. When will you guys realize you made a mistake?

Please knock off the "damage control" by posting messages not appropriate for public forums. Korg does not own this site.
 
brzilian said:
Dan,

Read my post at HC. When will you guys realize you made a mistake?

Please knock off the "damage control" by posting messages not appropriate for public forums. Korg does not own this site.

Agreed. Korg's damage control has been just plain pathetic since the Oasys was announced. Obviously the sales projection isn't looking good, which comes as no surprise given how overpriced it is. 16 bit recording and sampling? LOL.

Dan's actions have been extremely disheartening. Not only has he blatantly come to forums to advertise, which is inappropriate enough..... he's criticized members of various forums, even called people "trolls" because they pointed out some of the flaws of the Oasys. It's just pathetic.
 
A Few Facts You SHould All Be Aware Of

Ah, hello K. We seem to now be transforumational! :D

Some hard won facts, mostly researched and beaten out of Korgs reps, who like to parse their words and hedge their bets: ;)

1) The Oasys is a soft synth running on a Linux distribution. It has no ASICs (Application Specific Integrated Circuits). To prevent you from running the Oasys software on a generic x86 Linux computer, Korg has utilized DRM (Digital Rights Management). Some people have stated that it would be very difficult to simply use the Oasys software package on a PC, owing to its GUI and control surfaces. If this were the case, one expects that Korg would not have implemented DRM to prevent this from happening.

Note that this may be cracked by hackers in future, seriously threatening your investment. Or Korg may itself release an Oasys VS.

2) The Oasys is NOT A ROMpler! It has zero physical ROM! The so-called ROM is actually linear uncompressed soundblocks stored on the Hard Drive. At startup, the kb loads these into RAM. Since this iteration of the Oasys comes with support for only 1GB of RAM (Korg promises to update this to 2GB--but their past record of abandonment of product support is frightful, to say the least!), it is NOT POSSIBLE to load all of the libraries simultaneously! Reboots are required to change configurations. Anywhere from 400MB-1200MB in blocks are available to load, but where is the RAM for it all? And if I wish to use 1GB for my own samples? LOL!

3) Korg prides itself on its emulations. Question is, can the filters on the Oasys self resonate? We've not heard any evidence of that.

4) The Oasys has none of the models from the Z1. The originator of this synth has passed away, and apparently no one else can comprehend his work. One would not throw it out for no reason, now would one?

5) HD-1 is 16-bit, 48kHz. Run it thru 32-bit CPU and out 24-bit 192kHz DACs and you still have 16-bit resolution at 48kHz. Mathematical law of significant digits: aka garbage in/garbage out.

6) Dan has not provided the correct link to the CCRMA work. The original synthkit, named as such, was made in 1979, and created no sounds whatever. It was used for mathematical algorithmic modelling. If pressed, I will search for it again on Google, or you might give it a try. Synthkit, NOT synthbuilder. ;)

7) Am I the only person who finds it astonishing that Korg failed to ask people in forums what they expected from the next Oays? It is the height of bizarre to now seek to confuse and confound people, to parse words and dribble relevant info grudgingly, only when confronted and provoked?

8) While the Oasys does reveal a better articulation and character than the Trinity/Triton line, the timbre is sterile, homogenous, and granular, like that other softsynth, the Hartmann Neuron. Hardly flagship material!

9) The 4-track 16-bit recording is laughable.

10)The lack of balanced outs (TRS) is criminal.

11) A 10" screen when the $2,250 NeKo has a 15" touch screen? Barbarous!

12) A 40 GB HD (2.5") when an 80-100GB disk would cost only $100 more, at most? Insane.

13) Use of a 32-bit P4 CPU constrains max RAM at 2GB in hardware. Since it has no Physical ROM...bye bye Charlie. Seriously HOBBLED! Fatally flawed!

14) Two different samples, 133MB and 512Mb, both of the worst piano, a Yamaha C7. Boesendorfer/Hamburg Steinway? Anyone?

15) Where oh where is that 3rd party software plug-in support we kept hearing about? Don't rush...I might go on vacation in the meantime. LOL.

16) Legendary Korg support. Oasys-PCI, announced 23 July, 1999. First batch shipped end of May, 2000. Windows XP and Apple OSX released September, 2001. Alpha, beta and SDK version released 18 months before. But Korg was "caught off guard." :rolleyes: Maybe history repeats itself.

Reps now lurking in every internet forum trying to talk up the dead. Damage control, meet Berlin, April 1945.

Caveat Emptor. ;)
 
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danatkorg said:
Have you demo'd the two side-by-side? Kyma and OASYS are very different products, with very different target users. I don't really understand this point. The primary innovations of the OASYS project have always been in the software realm. Best regards,Dan Phillips

Forgive my manners Dan for making reply such a short one, not reveling lack of substance but rather that *White Powder Ma* relieved me of the same with his adequately responsive post ;)

As for Kyma vs Oasys, that I believe is rather merit of qualitative measurement into the gray domain of personal preference and perceptual might.

For me Kyma is the finest thing available in synthesis today.

Dan, make no mistake about one thing. Even If I would be shouting on every corner of binary galaxy how Kyma is dreadful and miserable, Greta (lady of Symbolic Sound) would certainly not jump on every forum redeeming her holy grail, much like Korg is doing to my amazement. ...and with what persistence if I may add ;)

Why do I always forget the name of that Korg gentleman ?

I even posted his picture from 'Blue Bomber' presentation at SW forum. Well, anyway. Bowers (hope I wrote his name right) presented Oasys the way I wanted to be today. Synthesis station without pears, let it cost, let the present Oasys cost 3 times, but for goodness sake, lets have the full box of matches with all the promised synthesis algorithms.
 
Anthony said:
As for Kyma vs Oasys, that I believe is rather merit of qualitative measurement into the gray domain of personal preference and perceptual might.

Again, a simple question:

Have you compared Kyma and OASYS side by side? Have you personally demo'd the OASYS? Or, is this simply speculation on your part?

- Dan
 
danatkorg said:
Again, a simple question: Have you compared Kyma and OASYS side by side? Have you personally demo'd the OASYS? Or, is this simply speculation on your part?- Dan

I've heard them both one at the time. I doubt anyone organized such comparison between the two.

I also believe accumulative understanding of listening process and trained ears are sufficient to roughly suggest that Kyma does sound notch or two above Oasys. That is my assortment of impressions when thinking about Kyma sound. Question is, have you ever heard Kyma and could you afford even via PM to provide honest opinion about your thoughts compared to Oasys ;)

Besides, as I sad, this is qualitative domain of already attained higher standards of sound. And from what I have heard while listening to Oays... Oasys does belong there, I wont deny that , but Dan ,allow me to also to be frank when saying that Oasys does not own best the sounding seat in the house ;)

Honestly, considering only the lack of balanced outputs (although this is not the only indicative or required essence) lets be honest, neither it was projected into this realm. Such products are consistent all the way, and we can't say that here.

It is well built, well sounding instrument with Korg expectations whose defending finds me surprised at too many forums ;)
 
Anthony said:
Besides, as I sad, this is qualitative domain of already attained higher standards of sound. And from what I have heard while listening to Oays... Oasys does belong there, I wont deny that , but Dan ,allow me to also to be frank when saying that Oasys does not own best the sounding seat in the house ;)

No, the Oasys does not own the best sounding seat in the house, not by a long shot. Of course, Dan will counter this comment with questions like "what have you compared it to?"

It's no secret that Korg is on damage control, as is evidenced by dan's responses in this thread, and various others across various forums. I just looked at his posts in the thread at harmony central... ridiculous. To present a cost-comparison with the Oasys against the Minimoog and P5? :rolleyes:

Damage control Indeed....
 
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