Korg Oasys >>> time will tell <<<

[Anthony]

'

Allow me to add just another point.

Results are in my book the best mirror of Oasys.

If Oasys moves someone to create wonderful things, then Oasys could be as much creative as the best. of the best. Indeed, time will tell.

Even with Oasys power, people like Mortons,Jaeger, Fry (just to name a few) should have been included in making world class sounds to fully stretch the sounds limits. Sadly Oasys compiled many great sounds (some of them are fantastic) but haven't created any new ones. Something groundbreaking, something that says this is unmistakable sound of Oasys.

This is the preset I know comes from Oasys. This required same attention as marketing and technical side of Oasys. Some people behind Oasys made their homework while others barely scratched the work which let to the present state of affairs, inconsistency. To make something the best, you need to allow the best individuals to work their areas the best they know. Perhaps less marketing hunger would allow Korg people (states) to really distinguish the craft itself. It seems to me that you made too many things "in the house" while allowing no "freelancers" to really make this machine shine.

I can't even imagine what unbelievable libraries could have been created for Oasys if you hired Denny Jaeger or Frank Bry to do what their are known to be best in the business. That would be more powerful then all this present Ninja campaign of Korg jumping around every corner, making sure that we "understand" why Oasys it the best and why it is wrong to "doubt" Oasys.

Just a few better placed steps along the way and you could have machine that would require no promotion at all. At least I thank Korg for bringing significance to hardware machines again, just hope Roland and Yamaha have something special in the same department, maybe that returns Oasys the original core. I think competition is the best medicine for Oasys.

I don't have any problems in oftamology department but where and why did Dan's post after Ramsely's disappeared ???

Dan posted after Ramsely but it is erased now

 

[White Powder Ma]

Let Dan rebut himself

White Powder/Phineas's post is....inventive.

Here is a detailed analysis of some of the points:

http://acapella.harmony-central.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=12418351#post12418351

Best regards,

Dan

The Oasys isn't a soft synth now? Wow! So, am I inventing things? It would certainly be a compliment to my creativity . Alas, no. I read it. Perhaps it would be best for Dan to discuss this issue with himself. Here is a reply of his in the Synth-kit beta yahoo group to another member. Note the part where he says all of the synthesis and samples are software based. I reprint it in its entirety for your consideration.

Re bit rate argument. Cut to the chase. Take a 16 bit colour jpg, load it into photoshop, manipulate it as you please in 24-bit resolution, and then print it out. Answer me this. Is it 16-bit or 24-bit? Technically, the latter. But the difference is hi resolution noise. The core content is locked in 16-bit. To really understand this effect, take a jpg at 24-bit, posterise it down to 8-bit 256 colours, then bump it up into 24-bit, and manipulate it all you want. You will never make anything like a true 24-bit photo.

Sadly, the post which delved into the issue of no ASICs in the Oasys, also on synth-kit yahoo group, posted in late February or early March of this year, memorable because the poster called it Application Specific Integrated Components)--a little spoonerism that I used once. , this post is no longer there, nor Dan's reply. A fragment of candid truth lost in the winds of commerce. Tant pis.

Lastly, pay attention to that which has not been contested.

Dan Phillips <dan@...>
Date: Fri Feb 18, 2005 10:30 am
Subject: Fwd: OASYS keyboard - disappointment which was possible to expect danatkorg
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This message was cross-posted to the oasys-pci list.
Here's the response that I posted there.

- Dan

Begin forwarded message:

> Speaking as someone who has worked on all three OASYS projects, I'm
> pretty clear that the new OASYS is a step forward in many respects.
>
> Here's some related info, arranged as FAQ questions and answers:
>
> * What makes OASYS “Open?”
>
> The synthesis and effects processing of OASYS is based on software,
> and not on fixed-purpose, dedicated hardware. This is the reason that
> OASYS can dynamically allocate between all of its synth models
> (currently, the HD-1, Al-1, and CX-3), and if desired use all of the
> system's power to play a particular model - unlike
> expansion-board-based systems, which typically offer a fixed, limited
> number of voices for each synthesis type.
>
> This software-based architecture also allows you to make your own
> trade-offs between the power allocated to playing synth voices, and
> the power allocated to effects.
>
> Because all synths and effects are software-based, Korg will be able
> to expand these capabilities via software - without adding any
> additional hardware (no EXB boards necessary, for instance). Future
> EXi instruments and EXf effects should keep OASYS sounding fresh and
> cutting-edge for many years to come. You can also expand sample
> libraries via EXs , as well as by importing Akai, WAVE, or AIFF data.
>
> * This product seems a little different from the unreleased,
> mid-1990's OASYS keyboard, and from OASYS PCI. Why are you calling it
> OASYS?
>
> All three OASYS products (so far!) have had differences from one
> another, but they also all share the same, core ideas: expandable
> software-based synthesis, physical modeling, and exceptional audio
> quality.
>
> OASYS offers a number of important advancements over OASYS PCI,
> including significant improvements to the synthesis algorithms,
> greatly increased number of voices, and dynamic voice allocation. It
> doesn't currently have as many different synthesis algorithms as OASYS
> PCI - but that's what EXi are for.
>
> * Is this the original OASYS design from the mid-1990’s?
>
> No. Although it's based on the same core ideas as the original OASYS
> keyboard (see above), the 2005-model OASYS uses an entirely new
> architecture. In comparison to the original, the new OASYS offers
> significant improvements to the synthesis algorithms, polyphony, and
> future expandability.
>
> * Does OASYS support SynthKit, like the OASYS PCI?
>
> Not currently.
>
> * Are there third-party EXi, EXf, or EXs for OASYS?
>
> Not currently, but we're very open to that possibility.
>
> * Is it possible that future EX i will play samples, or are EX i
> just for "modeling?"
>
> Yes, it’s possible that future EXi would include sample-playback.
>
> * Are EXi , EXf , and EXs expansions hardware boards, like the Triton
> EXB series?
>
> No. They are software and data, loaded onto the internal hard drive.
> This is designed to allow easy future expansion of EX i , EX f , and
> EX s via software (e.g., CD-ROMs, web downloads etc.).
>
> > Not clear what purpose in the given functions of digital sound
> > studio. However computer studios it is all the same much better and
> > more convenient.
>
> When it's released, listen to the OASYS synth sounds, and compare them
> to anything else on the market, hardware or software. If you don't
> think that it sounds better, then you probably don't need it in your
> studio. And if I didn't think it *did* sound better, I probably
> wouldn't be suggesting this!
>
> > Opportunities of a sampler up to 512MB are expanded.
> > However computer program samplers possess much more powerful
> > opportunities and memory sizes.
>
> Most sample playback, both hardware and software, suffers either from
> aliasing, from poor high-frequency response (from attempts to
> ameliorate aliasing), or both. OASYS uses extremely high-quality
> interpolation to minimize these common problems.
>
> In other words - not all sample players sound the same.
>
> > So the library ñåìïëîâ " East-West
> > symphonic library " occupies near 80 Ãá, and demands for optimum
> > work 1500MB operative memory.
>
> We've announced that, relatively soon, we'll be upgrading the OASYS
> software to support up to 1.5 GB of sample RAM.
>
> BTW - lists such as these offer a unique opportunity for developers,
> such as myself, to interact with users. That's why I'm here.
>
> I've refrained from making any disparaging comments about you
> personally, or about whatever musical or business ventures you might
> be involved in. Instead, I've respectfully answered what I perceive to
> be your fundamental questions. In the future, I would greatly
> appreciate it if you would show me the same courtesy.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Dan
>
> -----------------
> Dan Phillips
> Product Manager, Korg R&D
> Personal website: www.danphillips.com

 

[White Powder Ma]

A shared insight.

Below is a wonderful article which inspired me to ask the question of if the Oasys filters could self-resonate (oscillate).

Dan's reply may be read at Harmony Central. It is also cut and pasted from another forum, with the commentary provided by Array, a Waldorf xTK and Q+ owner. Of course, as the owner of a Blue32 Q, for me the irony was delicious.

The interview in Sonikmatter.com:
http://interview.sonikmatter.com/data/wolfram_franke.php

The post from another thread in another forum:

Wow....DanAtKorg is either an imbecile or....
« Thread Started on Yesterday at 1:35am »
or he simply doesnt know what the f*** he is talking about.

I'm sorry, but someone sent me this little nugget, and I just couldnt let it go:

Re filters: the filters in the current OASYS models don't self-oscillate. As far as I know, this is the same as the filters in the Waldorf Q, the Ion, the Clavia synths, and the multimode filters in the Virus.

(For those unfamiliar with the term, self-oscillation is something that happens with some analog filters; if you crank up the resonance all the way, the inherent noise in the system feeds into the filters, and the resonance feedback loop quickly turns into a pitched noise, which needs no further input in order to keep sounding.)

The OASYS filters do, however, resonate strongly in response to input, with resonance tracking the keyboard - such as is necessary for the classic noise-as-input, resonance-as-pitch sound. This is used in at least one of the factory sounds ("Russian Winter," I believe).

(Recent versions of the Virus added another filter type, based on the Moog lowpass topology, that *do* self-oscillate. The OASYS doesn't have a model that does this - yet.)

Best regards,

Dan

Wow....Are they so arrogant at Korg that they dont even know their competition? Both the Q AND the XT (you know...that "primitive" little digital synth) have self oscillating filters.

After that, how can anyone trust what these assclowns have to say?

Hmm. How indeed?

 

[danatkorg]

Yes - I was incorrect. As soon as this was pointed out to me, I acknowledged it publicly.

Best regards,

Dan

 

[Dragon]

Listen, White Powder Ma, you are new so perhaps you don't care, but it is considered uncool to use nasty epithets at people for no reason. Don't do it again, please.

 

[White Powder Ma]

Well, it would appear that more than one person has been confounded by my lack of redaction in my post above. It is always a tricky matter when quoting a source with errors without wanting to redact (in this case incomplete punctuation).

The commentary, as I took pains to indicate, is that of a twentyish chap Array. I found the comments particularly germane and candid. Such is the honesty of youth, to which even elders must bend an ear, if not at least to test their own time worn tenets.

As to the case of epithets, this case is debatable. The word imbecile is not attributed in a statement, merely postulated as an interrogatory. Moreover, not even rhetorically.

The other term, assclowns, is referenced in the plural, therefore again not singling any one person out specifically. Clearly, it evinces a level of exasperation in the writer that I felt would be duplicitous of me to edit.

It should finally be remembered, that the term epi means short or brief, from the Attic Greek, and thetic comes to us from thesis. Here, this is not quite the case either, because there is a sound logical argument (thesis) supporting Array's comments, and this term is used in summation.

Neither is presented in clear ad hominem offense, as I see it. However, if anyone takes umbrage, I do apologise. Sometimes spicy food causes sneezing. Either way, it certainly clears the air.

For comparison, here is Array's original post:

http://www.keyboards.proboards49.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=1121146559

I would have thought it would have been easier for people to differentiate our voices. In any event, I would like to point out for the record that I am NOT Array, in case there is any lingering doubt.

 

[danatkorg]

I guess I don't understand the point of this. I was wrong about a single fact, and immediately and publicly acknowledged this when it was pointed out to me.

I've also corrected a few of Phineas's comments from earlier in this thread (he cross-posted this to Harmony Central, so I replied there). In contrast to my response above, I have yet to see any similar acknowledgement from him.

Phineas also uses the above "erudite" voice on occasion, as if he is merely an intellectual who intends no offense. However, he then posts things such as this, showing a very different character:

"Yeah, today I made a big poopsie bomb to all the trolls so they could chew on some factual gristle."

(http://www.keyboards.proboards49.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=1121146559)

Dan Phillips

 

[fraserhutch]

Well, it would appear that more than one person has been confounded by my lack of redaction in my post above. It is always a tricky matter when quoting a source with errors without wanting to redact (in this case incomplete punctuation).

Acxtually, I am confounded by your apparent belief that the use of overly affected verbiage should somehow lend credence to your words. They do not. Please take this elsewhere.

 

[brzilian]

I guess I don't understand the point of this. I was wrong about a single fact, and immediately and publicly acknowledged this when it was pointed out to me.

I've also corrected a few of Phineas's comments from earlier in this thread (he cross-posted this to Harmony Central, so I replied there). In contrast to my response above, I have yet to see any similar acknowledgement from him.

Phineas also uses the above "erudite" voice on occasion, as if he is merely an intellectual who intends no offense. However, he then posts things such as this, showing a very different character:

"Yeah, today I made a big poopsie bomb to all the trolls so they could chew on some factual gristle."

(http://www.keyboards.proboards49.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=1121146559)

Dan Phillips

Dan,

I really don't like Korg ruining all the forums I regularly read. I have asked you politely to act professionally, but apparently you are not capable of that.

Take your SPAM/damage control publicity elsewhere!

I think I'm about ready to write an open letter to Korg's executive team telling them they need to do something about their Product Managment staff.

 

[danatkorg]

Take your SPAM/damage control publicity elsewhere!

How is this spam or publicity?

I did not start this thread; I am simply responding to misinformation about my product.

- Dan

 

[danatkorg]

Re bit rate argument. Cut to the chase. Take a 16 bit colour jpg, load it into photoshop, manipulate it as you please in 24-bit resolution, and then print it out. Answer me this. Is it 16-bit or 24-bit? Technically, the latter. But the difference is hi resolution noise. The core content is locked in 16-bit. To really understand this effect, take a jpg at 24-bit, posterise it down to 8-bit 256 colours, then bump it up into 24-bit, and manipulate it all you want. You will never make anything like a true 24-bit photo.

Actually, this is a great example - and it shows clearly how manipulations can add data to a graphic (or a sample).

For instance, look at the histogram of the posterized image; notice how it shows a very few spikes, surrounded by empty space - in other words, there isn't much color information. (Of course, this is a rather extreme example in comparison to a 16-bit sample...but it's good to illustrate the point.)

Now, use a simple manipulation, such as a Gaussian blur. Note that the histogram will now show a much broader range of information.

The same will hold for manipulations within a synthesizer. Not all manipulations add data - but many do.

Thanks for posting the responses from my FAQ, btw - I'm glad to see that they still read well!

Best regards,

Dan

 

[Ramsely]

How is this spam or publicity?

I am simply responding to misinformation about my product.

- Dan

And comparing the pricing of the Oasys to that of a Minimoog or P5 to show how "reasonably priced" you think it is? Is THAT "responding to misinformation" as well?

Please take the PR elsewhere. Korg's website would be a good place to start.

 

[brzilian]

How is this spam or publicity?

I did not start this thread; I am simply responding to misinformation about my product.

- Dan

Didn't your monther teach you its better to just walk away?

Defend your product? Hmmm, lets see, if you had done your job right to begin with, maybe you wouldn't have to be here! Think about that one...

 

[danatkorg]

And comparing the pricing of the Oasys to that of a Minimoog or P5 to show how "reasonably priced" you think it is? Is THAT "responding to misinformation" as well?

Yes, it absolutely is. You've quoted from outside this thread, but the first time I posted this was in response to concerns about how musicians could afford an $8,000 synth. In fact, when adjusted for inflation, a number of well-known synths have been at this price point (or higher) - showing that, over the past 35 years, professional musicians have repeatedly been able to afford this price point. Please note that I included the more recent Kurzweil synths as well - showing a price continuity from 1970 to 2001, with both analog and digital synths.

Best regards,

Dan

 

[danatkorg]

Defend your product? Hmmm, lets see, if you had done your job right to begin with, maybe you wouldn't have to be here! Think about that one...

If you look out over the web, you'll find that most of the comments of those who have actually played the OASYS are quite positive.

There are a few people, however, who have been repeatedly banned from various forums for their behavior in OASYS-related discussions, and most recently told to cool it on Harmony Central, or be banned there as well. (You know this, since you post on Harmony Central as well.) They are now trying to take the argument here.

- Dan

 

[brzilian]

There are a few people, however, who have been repeatedly banned from various forums for their behavior in OASYS-related discussions, and most recently told to cool it on Harmony Central, or be banned there as well. (You know this, since you post on Harmony Central as well.) They are now trying to take the argument here.

- Dan

Again, if you're making money, who cares???????

But of course that isn't the case and is why you are here.

 

[danatkorg]

Again, if you're making money, who cares???????

But of course that isn't the case and is why you are here.

If I understand your implication correctly, do you mean that you think OASYS isn't selling well?

In fact, OASYS has just recently started shipping, and the distributors are still filling pre-orders. In other words, we currently can't make them fast enough (though I'm told that we should be caught up soon).

I'm actually not directly connected to a sales division, btw; I'm in R&D. The reason that I am in this thread, as I have said, is to respond to misinformation about the product.

- Dan

 

[brzilian]

If I understand your implication correctly, do you mean that you think OASYS isn't selling well?

In fact, OASYS has just recently started shipping, and the distributors are still filling pre-orders. In other words, we currently can't make them fast enough (though I'm told that we should be caught up soon).

I'm actually not directly connected to a sales division, btw; I'm in R&D. The reason that I am in this thread, as I have said, is to respond to misinformation about the product.

- Dan

Product managers manage the R&D process all the way through until the product ships and then do PLM once its on the market. You're the one that comes up with sales forecasts based on market research. If the product fails, its your rear end on the line...

 

[danatkorg]

Product managers manage the R&D process all the way through until the product ships and then do PLM once its on the market. You're the one that comes up with sales forecasts based on market research. If the product fails, its your rear end on the line...

Uh, no, actually. As I wrote above, I'm in R&D - not sales. My group is primarily responsible for the synthesis and realtime aspects of OASYS. I don't create sales forecasts or do market research related to sales.

Best regards,

Dan

 

[brzilian]

Uh, no, actually. As I wrote above, I'm in R&D - not sales. My group is primarily responsible for the synthesis and realtime aspects of OASYS. I don't create sales forecasts or do market research related to sales.

Best regards,

Dan

I give up. Another one goes on my Ignore list.