Hammond and Leslie questions/options

RTWmaniac

New member
So I'm looking to upgrade my rig and starting to seriously think about going the Hammond/Leslie route. I'm looking at the XK3 and I'm wondering if it's worth it to upgrade to the XK-3C. I'm not a techie so it's hard for me to understand if the differences warrant the extra cost. I'm also not a gear snob so I have a hunch that I might not even notice a difference unless it's a fairly big upgrade.

As for the Leslie, I found a good combo deal that includes a 2101. Surprisingly, I can't find much online regarding the differences between the 2101 and the mk2 and have no idea if it's worth the upgrade.

I want an awesome sounding organ, and am willing to spend money if it's worth it for said upgrades. Ultimately I want to stay in the price range of the above equipment. If it matters, I play hard rock/metal, and also do more mellow, jam rock stuff on the side.

Thanks for any help!
 
Do you have to move it, or is just for studio use? I don't miss the days of moving my old band's keyboardist's B3 and full size Leslie!
 
the new Hammonds are just electronic keyboards and not tone wheel organs so I don't see any reason to want a Hammond specifically over any other keyboard.
Just find the one whose organ sound you like best and/or is closest to the original tone wheel Hammonds in sound.
The Leslie's another matter since they've yet to build an effect that sounds quite like a real Leslie.
I don't know anything about the models though.
 
the new Hammonds are just electronic keyboards and not tone wheel organs so I don't see any reason to want a Hammond specifically over any other keyboard.
Just find the one whose organ sound you like best and/or is closest to the original tone wheel Hammonds in sound.
The Leslie's another matter since they've yet to build an effect that sounds quite like a real Leslie.
I don't know anything about the models though.
The current model Hammonds use a modern approach to additive synthesis, which the original organs did with mechanical parts and tube preamp harmonic generation for the different "drawbar" settings. The analog tone wheel is replicated through software and waveform analysis of the 'classic' models.

The new Leslie 2101mk2 uses the same spinning-horn technique for the treble, but the bass drivers are split for stereo, and use a rotary simulator.

Hammond XK-3c | Sweetwater.com

Leslie 2101 mk2 | Sweetwater.com
 
that's not really correct about the old tone wheel organs. They used a tone wheel to generate the full tone and then used 'splitter's to get the various footages. They did not use tube preamp generation for the drawbar settings.

regardless of all that ..... the new Hammonds are all electronic and don't do any better job of replicating the tonewheel sound than any of the other modern quality electronic keyboards do.
 
I heard a 9 pc. funk band a few days ago who were exceptional (5 horns!) and the keyboardist had a Hammond XK-1 in his lineup. It sounded awful.

Whether or not it was the musician not knowing how to use it properly (settings and such), or if the way it was coming through the Mix (trying to be kind here, as I can distinctly distinguish tone), my ears were turned off by it.

I still swear by Kurzweil's B3 alogrithms in their top workstations, but anyway, just sharing my experience listening this past weekend.
 
Hammond XB-5 A Big bang For the Buck

The Hammond XB-5 is probably the best kept secret among portable organs. Combined with the Leslie 2121 Stationary and Rotary 2101 or any other 11 PIN Leslie Tone Cabinet, it is an outstanding, highly underrated, powerful, work horse especially suited for churches, Studios and road gigs. With pedal sustain, percussion and key click, it looks like a Hammond console and produces the quality B-3 touch, feel and sweet sound loved by musicians but of no real concern to most audiences. The XB-5 is much cheaper and lighter than a new or used dual keyboard Hammond portable organ that’s sold alone. At 56 lbs, this organ breaks down and sets up in approx. 15 minutes and transports with ease. Used, this organ with a Leslie speaker can go for $4,000-$5,000. I own one with the Leslie 22121 and 2101 and it’s awesome. However, finding one in excellent condition is rare. Hope this helps.
 
They used a tone wheel to generate the full tone and then used 'splitter's to get the various footages. They did not use tube preamp generation for the drawbar settings.

regardless of all that ..... the new Hammonds are all electronic and don't do any better job of replicating the tonewheel sound than any of the other modern quality electronic keyboards do.
I'm not sure where you got this, or maybe even how "old" you're talking about, but this isn't right, the way i read it.
I have 5 tonewheel Hammonds. In each is a tonewheel generator. This is a motor driven shaft that carries undulating wheels across magnetic pickups. There is one wheel per each tone. No "splitters" that i know of. 96 wheels on a full size model with 61 keys.
All of these run through the keyboard where each key has 9 leaf switches beneath it. One for each tone. These key to buss bars that go through the drawbars that combine in a transformer. One for each manual (in later models...the Model A had one only tranny for the whole thing, like the later spinets). Then all of that goes to an ordinary tube preamp. Models with percussion and chorus/vibrato have, essentially, a 3 or 4 channel tube preamp.
Easy peasy.
The new Hammonds are nice. They're very flexible for the tweaker. There's some good You Tube material on them. I don't/won't have one. The new Korgs are nice, too. The OLD Korgs are nice. I have one. The Voce is a nice Hammond sound. I have 3. Some crappy Hammond sounds, IMO, are the old Oberheim, Emu, and Roland.
The real question has been asked: "do you plan on moving this?" Gigging a Hammond is a labor of love. I've done it and for several years. I may do it again, but not until i finish this rebuild.
This is very well plowed ground. How much do you want to spend? How much do you want to lift? How good do you want to sound? Those 3 questions control everything else.


Ponder5
 
I didn't see whether anyone else answered this, but the XK-3 is the lower register. It has no drawbars, or preamp, or overdrive, or ... The C means controller. You have to have it to control the other piece. No, the 1c is not that great. Didn't sound very realistic to my ears.
The XK-3C actually sends the digital sound (like the older wheel units) into a tube preamp.

AFA Korgs, I had a CX-3 in the 80s and it sounded very good. I'd check with Reverb, e-Bay and anywhere else you can think of if you're looking for one of the old Korgs. They were fairly solid built if you're going gigging with it.
 
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I'm not sure where you got this, or maybe even how "old" you're talking about, but this isn't right, the way i read it.
I have 5 tonewheel Hammonds. In each is a tonewheel generator. This is a motor driven shaft that carries undulating wheels across magnetic pickups. There is one wheel per each tone. No "splitters" that i know of. 96 wheels on a full size model with 61 keys.
All of these run through the keyboard where each key has 9 leaf switches beneath it. One for each tone. These key to buss bars that go through the drawbars that combine in a transformer. One for each manual (in later models...the Model A had one only tranny for the whole thing, like the later spinets). Then all of that goes to an ordinary tube preamp. Models with percussion and chorus/vibrato have, essentially, a 3 or 4 channel tube preamp.
Easy peasy.
The new Hammonds are nice. They're very flexible for the tweaker. There's some good You Tube material on them. I don't/won't have one. The new Korgs are nice, too. The OLD Korgs are nice. I have one. The Voce is a nice Hammond sound. I have 3. Some crappy Hammond sounds, IMO, are the old Oberheim, Emu, and Roland.
The real question has been asked: "do you plan on moving this?" Gigging a Hammond is a labor of love. I've done it and for several years. I may do it again, but not until i finish this rebuild.
This is very well plowed ground. How much do you want to spend? How much do you want to lift? How good do you want to sound? Those 3 questions control everything else.


Ponder5
I get it from working on Hammond organs. I'm a 40 year piano tuner and the main store I tuned at was the primary Hammond repair shop for Hammond organs with 2500 churches on it's account list.
And a good friend rebuilt them ..... even going so far as to have the chassis replated in chrome and using plexi-glas for the backs so you could see all the giidies
I know exactly how a Hammond organ works.
The splitters are electronics ..... divider networks using caps and resistors that take the basic pitch and split it into the different octaves. Just a transaformer would not give you the different pitches ..... you have to have caps and resistors to do that which is why they have a buttload of those in there.
 
I get it from working on Hammond organs. I'm a 40 year piano tuner and the main store I tuned at was the primary Hammond repair shop for Hammond organs with 2500 churches on it's account list.
And a good friend rebuilt them ..... even going so far as to have the chassis replated in chrome and using plexi-glas for the backs so you could see all the giidies
I know exactly how a Hammond organ works.
The splitters are electronics ..... divider networks using caps and resistors that take the basic pitch and split it into the different octaves. Just a transaformer would not give you the different pitches ..... you have to have caps and resistors to do that which is why they have a buttload of those in there.

Huh... i didn't know i was dealing with such an expert. My, my. Chrome AND plexiglass?

And yet, you're still wrong.

Now, granted, yes, the later Hammond had various transistor components to keep up with the home-organ swing boxes. They had a different way of doing things. They were just ordinary transistor organs with a Hammond label.

But I thought we were talking about the highly desirable tonewheel/drawbar Hammond models of rock/jazz era. The B-3, C-3, M-3, A-100, and the like. Not the goofy ones of later years.

Models A thru E had no such pitch "splitters" and you'll never find one. I don't even think the H series had such. You're simply mistaken, i'm afraid. All models of M were likewise "splitter" free, no matter how many pianos you've tuned, they just don't exist.

But like I said, it's the traditional models I'm talking about.
I'll leave the goofy ones to you.



Ponder 5
 
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