The New Tone Thread

Right on dude, I've been thinking about that too, & may end up getting the 18w version with the EL34 tubes instead of the 10w version...

I think that may get me closer to the real deal than the 10w, & I honestly don't think there would be that much difference in the loudness thing between the 10w & 18w...Now the 36w I'm sure there's a difference...

I e-mailed him back & told him I wanted him to just build me a 70's style, Super Lead clone with an added gain stage & fx loop...I can still change it to an 18w, as I'm sure he won't do anything until I send him the $$$, which will be in a couple/few weeks anyway....

Gotta run....
 
You know what dude, fuck all that. Consider a used 1987x. 50w reissue. An actual Marshall 4-hole EL34 1987 circuit, and the reissues have a bypassable fx loop. 50w isn't gonna be significantly louder than 18 or 36 watts, and you'll have better headroom and punch. They're probably about the same price, maybe even less than this custom thing. I can tell you without a doubt that the 50w "Plexi" is a fucking killer amp. No question.
 
You know what, you're right dude, even if the little amp kicks ass, (and I'm sure it would), I'd still be wanting the real thing later on...The 50w re-issue has an fx loop too, & I could probably even get it on the payment plan at AMS...It's like comparing my 1w DSL to my 100 watter...Sure, the 1w sounds great, it really does, but there's a very, very noticeable difference between the recorded tones of those amps...and I don't have to jump through any hoops to make it that way either, so I'm probably just gonna say fuck it, & buy the real thing...

BTW, I'm helping my big brother start on a metal roof for the house...It needs it really bad...we're just gonna put the new metal roof over the existing old one....What I thought would take about an hour or so (had to run to town) has turned into an all-day, & the next thing...My brother just popped up while I was gone, so, that's where I've been...We'll probably work on it until around dark, but....I'll be back...
 
OK, so we got about half the roof on today, should finish it up tomorrow...While it was raining last night, the overcast weather did make it nice today for a little outdoor work, glad it wasn't smokin' hot, where I spend most of my time underground, the heat really gets to me....

I've found 2 1987x re-issues in various places on the GC online thing..cheapest one is $1399, the other is $1449....

I could just order a new one from AMS on their 8 payment plan, but really, I don't wanna have any more bills than I've already got, so I'll just keep saving up & buy the fucker in a couple/few more weeks...The company picnic is the 27th of this month, & I should get a few hundred bucks just for showing up....They have raffles/drawings there all day, but I've never been lucky enough to win any of those...Last year a guy won $2500, & a couple more walked away with $1000....Not gonna get my hopes up for anything like that, but I should get $2-300 just for showing up....I might just take that money & leave too, I see enough of some of those fuckers all week anyway....:laughings:.

If/when I get this motherfucker, that'll be 2 scratched off "the list"....:).
 
Damn you're right. That's more than I thought they'd be. I only see two of them on GC used. I think I paid about $1100 for my 1959SLP.

I see a pretty beat up JCM 800 1960A with factory G12-65s on my local craigslist for $350. Very interesting.....
 
Damn, what a weekend...got the roof on, & the only thing left to do is go back over it putting the rest of the screws in the metal (I'm guessing we've got about 75% of 'em in now, but that won't take too long...)...My brother should finish that up tomorrow while I'm at work...

Greg_L said:
Damn you're right. That's more than I thought they'd be. I only see two of them on GC used. I think I paid about $1100 for my 1959SLP.
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Yeah dude, that's a little high, but, it's just a couple/few hundred more than the low-watt clone I've been talking about....Since the real deal is that high, I'm gonna think about it for a couple/few days....Dunno which way I'll go, but I'm gonna have a super lead come hell or high water.......:D.

Greg_L said:
I see a pretty beat up JCM 800 1960A with factory G12-65s on my local craigslist for $350. Very interesting.....
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Wow, I'd almost send you the $$$ to buy that & have it shipped to me man...But, I'm gonna hold off, the next thing I'm gettin' is a super lead...

Post some toans dude!!!!
 
I just put the wheels on the ISO cab, so I'm gonna run out to Wal-Mart & get some weather-stripping to seal the lid a little more, I think that's the rattle we've been hearing...Be back in an hour or so...
 
Terry from GR Amps just e-mailed me back....He says he can add all the bells/whistles to the super lead clone, except the gain mod...Which is ok, I could always use a pedal....

So, I e-mailed him back asking could he build me an 18w, 4-hole amp, with PPIMV, presence, fx loop, SS rectifier, with EL34 tubes, so I'm waiting to see what he says, & waiting on the price...If it's quite a bit less than a used 1987x, then I'll probably have him build the 18w....If it's close to being the same, then I'll probably try to find a cheaper used one....We'll see when he e-mails me back....

Been a long weekend, I worked on the house all weekend, so I'm gonna call it a day, I'm fuckin' tired...See you guys tomorrow...
 
Ok guys, just keeping the thread alive, here's a toan I messed with this morning with the Bogner > DSL > ISO V30...Nothing special, just fuckin' around with my new gear learning it as I go....This clip is a little boomy in the low end, probably because of the resonance knob being up pretty high, & the C1 mic picks up the lows a little better than the '57 (in my experiences/opinion anyway)...And instead of just typing the amp settings in here, thought I'd post a few pics showing what everything was set on....Gives me a reason to play with my new phone too....:laughings:.


LP > Bogner Red > DSL > ISO V30 > C1

Bogner Ecstasty Red:


DSL100: 100w mode, green channel, clean


ISO cab w/V30 & Behringer C1 mic:


I added some weatherstripping to the ISO cab where the lid closes down, & it seems to have stopped most, if not all of the rattling I was getting...I might add another layer tonight to make the lid seal a little tighter, & stop any more rattling it has....The handles on the sides rattle sometimes, I might add just a little piece on each handle too (the handles have rubber on 'em, but they still rattle sometimes, usually I can just move 'em & it stops though)...I also added some cheap foam to the lid (you can see it in the pic), but it's just for looks, now it does look a little better than before, instead of looking like I had a kid's pillow stuffed in there...

The C1 mic can't handle the SPL's like the '57 does, so I had to turn the amp down to about 2, & turn the pre-amp gain on my interface all the way down, or it'd clip in the daw...

And, I'm still debating on the GR amp, or just buy a Marshall 1987x re-issue, but most likely, I'll just get the real deal & possibly an attenuator....That said, which attenuator do you guys think would be the best for me??? I've read good things about the Rivera Rockcrusher, but it's pretty expensive....

Lemme know what you guys think about the clip, & the attenuator...Gotta run, time for work...
 
Haha yeah that's pretty boomy. I don't know, I think I've liked all of your natural amp clips better than the pedal clips. This one aint bad, but it doesn't do too much for me. Might be the boom mucking it up for me.

I don't know much about attenuators dude. I hear good and bad things about all of them. The Rock Crusher and THD Hotplate are both very popular and seemingly very good. The Hot Plate is a little cheaper but you can only buy them in 4, 8, or 16 ohm. I think the Rock Crusher does both 8 and 16.

The Weber MiniMass and Dr Z Air Brake are popular too. Jet City makes one called the Jettenuator, though I've heard bad things about this one. And of course Marshall has their own - The Power Brake.

Most of the people that complain about the sound of attenuators are grossly misusing them. Joe Blow fires up his 100w Plexi and slams it down to tv volume with an attenuator and wonders why it sounds bad. They're not really made to bring a 100w amp down to record at night with a baby in the room levels. Nothing can do that and preserve tone. Attenuators are made for knocking a few db off in order to make an unusable amp usable at smaller clubs and bars. They're supposed to just take some edge off, not totally transform the amp into something that it's not. Once you start knocking half or more of the power out of it, it will change the tone, usually for the worse. That's just how it is. The benefit of an attenuator is that it leaves the amp unmolested and some of them have line out and speaker emulation features. If you don't want to mod a master volume like a PPIMV into your NMV amp, then attenuator is the way to go. They're expensive though, require more space and cables, and they get hot as fuck.

The PPIMV has it's own pros and cons. A PPIMV also hurts the tone once you really bring it down to talking volumes, but I think it does it by confusing the negative feedback circuit. Non MV amps get a little fizzy and seem to never clean up when you tame them way down with a PPIMV. Like the attenuators, a PPIMV is best used to just take it down a little, not turn a Plexi into a small bedroom practice amp. The advantage of the PPIMV IMO is that it's much cheaper than an attenuator, an easy mod for a competent tech, and a PPIMV is taken out of the circuit just by cranking it up if you want to. So it's available, or invisible, with a twist of a knob without having to buy any more gear or cables. They don't get hot and the amp doesn't care that it's there. It is a mod though. Things will have to be reworked, rewired, resoldered, and you might have to have a new hole drilled somewhere. It's not plug-and-play like an attenuator.

I went with the PPIMV on my 1959, and I don't regret it one bit. It sounds righteous all the time to me. I have 10 techs in town though. Out there in the boonies you might need to just get an attenuator if you get a 50w Plexi RI.
 
Yo miner, here's some quick PPIMV'd Super Lead for ya. This isn't dimed, it's more like nickel'd. Everything is on 5 just for a baseline. Including the PPIMV. It's at 12:00, which would be about 5. At this level it has started to affect the tone already. For real world loudness, it's pretty loud. Way way too loud for just practice jamming by yourself. It will hurt your ears after about one minute. Loud enough for full band practice/gig for sure.

Les Paul - Burstbucker 3 bridge p/u - guitar vol - 8 tone - 10
Marshall 1959SLP
All tone controls - 5
Vol 1 - 5
Vol 2 - 0
PPIMV - 12:00
Hi input 1 only
1960A 4x12 - Celestion G12-65. SM57 ctr, Audix i5 edge, both mics on axis on grill full blend.
No EQ or effects.
Cock me, make me feel better
 
Thanks man, you're right, where I live, there are no techs unless I drive like, 3-4 hours one way....Ain't gonna happen, so unless I think I can install a PPIMV myself (which probably ain't gonna happen either...LOL), the attenuator would be my best bet....

And I already know about just knocking a little db or two off the sound man, I've tried the "no-noise with an amp" thing since I switched from ampsims, & it ain't gonna happen....LOL...It's ok though, in a year from now, I'll have my own bachelor pad, & will be able to get as loud as I wanna, anytime I wanna...While I'm staying here during that year, I'm gonna buy up every fuckin' thing that I can, like the plexi/super lead, JVM, JCM800, couple more 4x12's (V30, Greenbacks), guitars (SG, probably another "pointy" one or two...LOL), pedals....well, I'm sure you get it dude....I've went without a lot of shit for a really long time because of the fruit-loop ex (like clothes & other shit that I've really needed but never got because I'd make sure her sorry ass had stuff she wanted instead...), but things are getting better for me, & I'm gonna have what the fuck I want, because I work my ass off...so, I'm leaning toward the real super lead, I pm'd a guy in the Marshall forum that has both the 1987x & the 18w clones, & he honestly prefers the real deal too, but he said it's loooooud....LOL....So, I've got a couple things I've got to take care of first (gotta buy some tires for my Jeep Liberty, & my insurance will be due in a couple weeks), but I've got about half the $$$ put away for the amp....Maybe in a few weeks, if nothing major happens, I'll get it....

Clip sounds good man, my DSL has a similar tone, but like Bob said, it's got that "bonk" that the DSL just doesn't have....

You bastard, you really know how to make the GAS fuckin' get to me don't ya???? HAHAHA!!!! Just kidding man, I'll have one before too long...

The annual company picnic is next weekend, & that should add a couple/few hundred extra to the stash, so it may be sooner than later....

And yes, GAS has got a hold of me dude....:laughings:.
 
Lt. Bob said:
that Marshall 'bonk' I love!
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Yeah dude, it's bonkalicious! :D

minerman said:
Thanks man, you're right, where I live, there are no techs unless I drive like, 3-4 hours one way....Ain't gonna happen, so unless I think I can install a PPIMV myself (which probably ain't gonna happen either...LOL), the attenuator would be my best bet....

And I already know about just knocking a little db or two off the sound man, I've tried the "no-noise with an amp" thing since I switched from ampsims, & it ain't gonna happen....LOL...It's ok though, in a year from now, I'll have my own bachelor pad, & will be able to get as loud as I wanna, anytime I wanna...While I'm staying here during that year, I'm gonna buy up every fuckin' thing that I can, like the plexi/super lead, JVM, JCM800, couple more 4x12's (V30, Greenbacks), guitars (SG, probably another "pointy" one or two...LOL), pedals....well, I'm sure you get it dude....I've went without a lot of shit for a really long time because of the fruit-loop ex (like clothes & other shit that I've really needed but never got because I'd make sure her sorry ass had stuff she wanted instead...), but things are getting better for me, & I'm gonna have what the fuck I want, because I work my ass off...so, I'm leaning toward the real super lead, I pm'd a guy in the Marshall forum that has both the 1987x & the 18w clones, & he honestly prefers the real deal too, but he said it's loooooud....LOL....So, I've got a couple things I've got to take care of first (gotta buy some tires for my Jeep Liberty, & my insurance will be due in a couple weeks), but I've got about half the $$$ put away for the amp....Maybe in a few weeks, if nothing major happens, I'll get it....

Clip sounds good man, my DSL has a similar tone, but like Bob said, it's got that "bonk" that the DSL just doesn't have....

You bastard, you really know how to make the GAS fuckin' get to me don't ya???? HAHAHA!!!! Just kidding man, I'll have one before too long...

The annual company picnic is next weekend, & that should add a couple/few hundred extra to the stash, so it may be sooner than later....

And yes, GAS has got a hold of me dude....:laughings:.
Click to expand...

Just don't let your GAS convince you to buy things you don't really want. Buyer's remorse sucks worse than a nagging case of GAS. Patience grasshoppa.....
 
Greg_L said:
Just don't let your GAS convince you to buy things you don't really want. Buyer's remorse sucks worse than a nagging case of GAS. Patience grasshoppa.....
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Right man, I know not to hurry on any of this shit...I can't hurry dude, I don't have the funds to hurry right now...:laughings:.

On the PPIMV, how hard would it be to install myself dude??? I have so-so soldering skills...
 
minerman said:
Right man, I know not to hurry on any of this shit...I can't hurry dude, I don't have the funds to hurry right now...:laughings:.

On the PPIMV, how hard would it be to install myself dude??? I have so-so soldering skills...
Click to expand...

Since I'm not exactly sure why it's done the way it's done, I can't answer that. I don't understand it. Just looking at it though, physically looking at it, it looks very simple. It's a double pot, a few resistors soldered across the lugs, and a few wires soldered to the power tube sockets and PCB. Looks easy enough, but board removal, or at least lifting the board might be required. Techs usually charge approx 100 bucks for the mod, including parts, so it can't be that labor intensive.
 
This is not my amp, but this is generally what the PPIMV pot and wiring looks like.

The red arrow points to the PPIMV double pot.
The black dot is where mine is located. I had it put on the back so the front panel looks stock and I don't have as long wires running everywhere.
PPIMV.jpg
 
Just to be honest dude, it's probably something I wouldn't wanna tackle myself...I mean sure, I can solder a little, & can follow directions, but I'd hate to think I'd fuck up a $1500 amp, which would be easily done, & would be my luck...LOL....Gonna do some more research on it...

Ok, here's another clip, same exact di, re-amped through the DSL100, this time using the '57...I did tweak the eq on the amp, because I used the red channel...to me this sounds kinda dull compared to the clip yesterday, but, it was just quick-n-dirty, basically killing time before work...

Signal chain:

LP> DSL100 > ISOcab V30 > '57

DSL100:
100w mode
Resonance: 5
Presence: 8
Bass: 8
Mid: 5
Treble: 5
Vol: 5
Gain: 2

LP > DSL100 > V30 > '57

I'm sure I could tweak the amp & mic placement to make this sound much better, but again, just fuckin' around....Lemme know what you think....I'm thinking the DSL100 has enough gain for me to use with about any style of music I'd wanna play/record....I don't get into the down-tuned cookie-monster vocal metal, so no need for that shit for me...

Gotta run, my lawyer called & told me to stop in to sign the final papers....WHOOOO!!!! Gonna have a fuckin' party this weekend to celebrate...I might even get a ac to dc converter thing, load my half-stack up into my Jeep & drive by her house with it cranked up...She always bitched about my music being too loud, even with the fuckin' 1w amp through the ISO cab....Bitch...LOL...

Gotta run!!!!!!
 
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