New cab on the way

[jonny deep]

So I just ordered this new cab: -



It's from a custom builder in Bristol (Custom Cabinets and Guitar Amp Cabs | Zilla Music UK). They usually cost £240 unloaded, but I got this one ex-demo for £260 loaded with 2 12" Tayden True Brit (British-made Greenback clones) speakers. The guy tells me it's been used at a couple of trade shows and is otherwise in mint condition - just with the speakers run in.

Should arrive tomorrow - v. excited.

[Greg_L]

Cool. Congrats.

What amp will you be running into it?

[jonny deep]

Cool. Congrats.

What amp will you be running into it?

Thanks. For the time being I'll be using my little Vox Night Train 15W head. I'm moving house in a few weeks, then I'm going to build a box in box iso-box thingy in the garage so I can crank it.

Then, I might think about a higher powered amp (and speakers if I go over 25W). My current 1x12 cab has a G12H30 in it, so I'm thinking of swapping out one of the Greenbacks with this, might give a good sound and I'll be able to point the mic at each speaker for L&R guitars.

[Greg_L]

Thanks. For the time being I'll be using my little Vox Night Train 15W head. I'm moving house in a few weeks, then I'm going to build a box in box iso-box thingy in the garage so I can crank it.

Then, I might think about a higher powered amp (and speakers if I go over 25W). My current 1x12 cab has a G12H30 in it, so I'm thinking of swapping out one of the Greenbacks with this, might give a good sound and I'll be able to point the mic at each speaker for L&R guitars.

Yup, you could do that. Keep in mind though that the G12H30 is a "loud" speaker. I don't know what those Greenback clones are rated at, but a traditional GB is a pretty soft 96-98db speaker. The G12H30's 100 db rating can make it seem pretty overpowering out in the room. If you mic both speakers you will notice that you'll probably have to turn the gain down on the G12H30 mic to have them track at the same input level. That's been my experience anyway with Vintage 30's (100db) and Greenbacks (97db). The Vintage 30's are noticeably louder with all things being equal.

[jonny deep]

Yup, you could do that. Keep in mind though that the G12H30 is a "loud" speaker. I don't know what those Greenback clones are rated at, but a traditional GB is a pretty soft 96-98db speaker. The G12H30's 100 db rating can make it seem pretty overpowering out in the room. If you mic both speakers you will notice that you'll probably have to turn the gain down on the G12H30 mic to have them track at the same input level. That's been my experience anyway with Vintage 30's (100db) and Greenbacks (97db). The Vintage 30's are noticeably louder with all things being equal.

I checked out the specs and the Tayden 'Greenbacks' are 99dB, while the G12H30 is 100dB, so should be fairly close. However, I probably won't record both speakers simultaneously - I think minor performance variation between takes is good for getting guitar spread between L&R.

[Greg_L]

I checked out the specs and the Tayden 'Greenbacks' are 99dB, while the G12H30 is 100dB, so should be fairly close. However, I probably won't record both speakers simultaneously - I think minor performance variation between takes is good for getting guitar spread between L&R.

Right. 99/100 is close enough and I bet they'll sound great together.

I've tried miking different models of speakers simultaneously for the same track to blend and I don't like it myself. Phasing is a problem, and all the manual time shifting in the world didn't help. Maybe I'm not good at it or maybe I just don't like it. I have occasionally liked two mics on the same speaker, but again phasing is an issue and the results, to me for my kind of sound, just weren't worth the effort. I get what I think are good enough results with one mic on one speaker. But I do like using different speakers for different tracks. I think I'm doing it backwards though. I think the general consensus is to mic the best speaker the best you can and keep it there while altering the amp/guitar/settings for variation in tone. I do it the other way. I leave the amp alone and mic different speakers. I usually have 3 guitar tracks, and I have 3 speaker models to choose from. For rhythms I've been liking the Greenback on one side, G12T-75 on the other, and the V30 for leads. I'm a big fan in how speakers impart different characteristics to the guitar/amps sound. I think speakers are generally overlooked in regard to their role in tone.

[minerman]

Nice Jonny, congrats!!!!
On the two mic thing, it wouldn't hurt to try it, but my experiences have been about the same as Greg's, but I know the reason my tracks didn't sound "right", because I don't have much (if any) experience getting 2 mics in phase, & like Greg one mic is enough for me for right now.....Eventually/later on I would like to learn/get better at the multi-mic thing though....

A little advice on the ISO box I can give is to make it quite a bit bigger (inside dimensions) than your cab, especially where your speakers are gonna point/where your mic is gonna be. Another thing is if possible, make it a double box (box in a box) with as much space in between the boxes as you can (stuffing the "space" with Roxul), & it should make it a lot more soundproof than the single box (like mine)...

[jonny deep]

Nice Jonny, congrats!!!!
On the two mic thing, it wouldn't hurt to try it, but my experiences have been about the same as Greg's, but I know the reason my tracks didn't sound "right", because I don't have much (if any) experience getting 2 mics in phase, & like Greg one mic is enough for me for right now.....Eventually/later on I would like to learn/get better at the multi-mic thing though....

A little advice on the ISO box I can give is to make it quite a bit bigger (inside dimensions) than your cab, especially where your speakers are gonna point/where your mic is gonna be. Another thing is if possible, make it a double box (box in a box) with as much space in between the boxes as you can (stuffing the "space" with Roxul), & it should make it a lot more soundproof than the single box (like mine)...

Thanks miner - I'm very excited to try it out.

I never intended to record two mics together, although I'd maybe set two up in the iso box so I don't have to go in and move it between takes.

As for the iso box itself, my plan is a box in a box with 3" of mineral wool in between and round the inside of the inner box. At the moment, the inner box is twice the depth of the 2x12, so the mic will sit in front of the cab in a space the same size as the cab. I'm concerned this isn't room for the speakers to move enough air, so I might make it three times the depth, but the outer box is already huge in my current plan.

[minerman]

You're on the right track with the ISO box Jonny, the outer dimensions of my box are: 36" L x 31" H x 27" W......I made mine so I could wheel it in/out of the room/house if I ever need to. I also turn my cabs up on their side so I'd be able to do that too.....So far with my box, I haven't had any problems with it not moving air, sure it's about as airtight as I could get it, but I don't think it affects the tone very much, I could be wrong, but so far so good.....

The 3" of mineral wool is a really good idea, that's what I have on all sides of my 1x12 inside my box, I basically wrapped the Roxul panels in old sheets to keep the fibers from getting all over everything, & laid one on the bottom, put the 1x12 in, & put the other panels on all sides. I actually have about 6" on the speaker side, I was actually able to fold the panels to make 'em fit, & the sheets actually hold the rockwool in place & keep it from falling apart......

One thing I wish I'd changed/done differently is the gooseneck. I wish I'd bought a small boom arm instead of the gooseneck, while it moves a lot more freely, & I can bend it where I need it, it doesn't want to stay in place sometimes, the boom wouldn't do that, but it's not a big deal, as I plan on building another box before long anyway to put inside my existing box.....

Keep us posted on your progress, & post some clips when you get your new cab!!!

[ecc83]

I doubt that you need to go bigger for the iso box. Speaker do not really "move air".
What will happen is that the box will have its own resonant frequency (plus 3 major standing waves and all the harmonics!) which might be nice or nasty, lap of the Dieties mate!

Two major factors will govern sound leakage. Mechanical coupling of the cab to the box, so stand the cab on some soft foam to de-couple it from the base.
Then the box must be airtight and so you cannot use jacks for connecting speakers instead use XLR 4 (to avoid confusion with mics. SM57s are tough but they will not be happy with 20volts of amp!).

Dave.