Epiphone Tune-o-Matic intonation problem

[ShanPeyton]

Good-day All.

I have a very odd problem happening. As the subject states, i have an Epiphone Les Paul Standard w/ a Tune-o-matic saddle bridge. I put new strings on it and began to intonate as usual. But not as usual, some of the saddles do not seem to be doing their jobs? Here is the totaly messed up part. I can turn the saddle as far one side or the other of bridge and the intonation stays EXACTLY the same pitch Any change, if any, is minute enough to not register.

This almost defies the laws of sound science? It has to to make some sort of pitch change? Right?

-using all new strings.
-tried four different tuners.
-have tried it in playing position and laying flat.
-Have tried loosening the strings all the way off prior to adjustments and have also tried it with just a hint of pressure on the saddle to keep it from jumping around?

Anyone care to enlighten as to what i could possibly be over looking here. It is kind of aggravating to experience this. There is something i am not seeing?


In the off chance i have to replace it any recommendations for a replacement?

[Sky Blue Lou]

That doesn't make any sense. Two things I can think of - the strings aren't wrapped well on the posts and are still tightening/adjusting (not likely) or the bridge posts are moving. If the bridge is set high there may not be enough threads down in the body or the posts themselves are bent. I have seen people add a second set of height-adjustment wheels to the bridge posts and tighten them down onto the body to stiffen up the posts.

That's all I've got.

[Greg_L]

Yeah that's crazy. I have no idea.

[jonny deep]

Yep, that's weird. If you're moving the saddle and pitch isn't changing, then the point where the string ends (well, the sounding part of the string) must be somewhere else, or the tension is changing as the length changes. Is your bridge high enough that the string bends and therefore 'terminates' at the saddle?

[Sky Blue Lou]

A couple of pictures of the bridge might be helpful here. I can think of a couple other potential issues but pictures would rule 'em in or out.

[muttley600]

It is impossible for what you describe to happen so there has to be another explanation. Can you describe how you are testing the intonation?

[Sky Blue Lou]

So are we going to hear anything else on this or what?

[ShanPeyton]

So are we going to hear anything else on this or what?

Yes, sorry Lou. Got busy with life there. I am going to try and tackle this again this weekend and see if i can't get it figured out. I will attach a few pictures. Not entirely sure how much good they will do. The flash and overhead light made it hard for my little phone to do it's thing.

Here's hoping we can figure something out. I just can't see how this is possible? I tried it again on Tuesday night and same thing. I move the thing back and forth and the pitch change is nil. I will try and see if i can get pictures of the tuner and saddle together to prove i am not crazy or making it up.

Thanks for waiting, albeit idly

[ShanPeyton]

It is impossible for what you describe to happen so there has to be another explanation. Can you describe how you are testing the intonation?

My method of testing the intonation can vary. I may be going further than i have to.

First phase
i will lay my guit-fiddle on the table and i will fret the 12th - Pluck - tune accordingly, then release the string and pick the harmonic on the 12th and typically adjust flat or sharp as needed i will loosen the tension on the string until i can get it off the saddle, then put it back on and add just a tad of tension to keep the saddle in place. All that really holds it in is that stupid little retaining wire. (I believe that little jerk to be the culprit, but i have been known to be wrong on many occasions) tune it back up and do it all over again.

Second Phase
after I make any appropriate adjustments from phase one i will place the guitar in Playing Position, play the string open, tune if needed (rarely until as of late). Next, Fret the 12th see what happens, usually if it needs a tweak at this juncture it is minute to adjust for the gravity of having done it one laying on the table.

I think someone mentioned a lower action? I do play with a lower action on this particular guitar? I have considered raising it a little? Worth a shot right?

[cakewalkKaKed]

only thing i can think of is the threads are stripped,the darn things actually move right ?

your intonation procedure is same as mine,harmonic for rough fret for fine