Too much natural reverb!

cephus

Slow Children Playing
I am playing a show this week with several performances in the worst room I have ever played in as far as the acoustics. This entire huge room is stone and brick and glass and the ceiling is at least 40 feet high. No carpet anywhere.

I have to play very quietly of course because the room loads up so easily. I am having trouble that my tone sounds very thin and scratchy when I keep it throttled back.

I have a 2 peavey classics I can use, a 20-watt with a ten or a 50-watt with 2 12s. I have to play alot of clean parts, but some of it is nice crunchy stuff.

This place is like a gymnasium and I was wondering if anyone had any tips for keeping a good, flexible, controlled tone in a room with such terrible acoustics.

It's a money gig, so I can't really screw around dialing in a sound. I have to show up and have a good idea theoretically of what I need to do. Would it be better to use the 10-inch 20-watt opened up a little further, or will the 212 with the master on 1 still give me more warmth?

One day I got there early enough so I could play with the amp on like 5 and it sounded really nice in that room. It was like AC/DC volume, though and completely inappropriate for the gig. It sounded frickin' awesome, though.
 
But to answer your question, all other things being equal I would opt for the smaller amp, cranked up a bit. In my experience throttling down a larger amp from what you normally run it is just frustrating, and sounds thin and shitty.
 
I'm gonna go with Zaphod on this. I'd use the smaller amp ....... if you're gonna have to play quietly, you're gonna be way happier with the sound than if you take that 50 watter and turn it almost off. technically 50 watts isn't that much louder than 20 but also you have the radiating area of the speakers to take into account and the 2-12s have a LOT more area which is gonna contribute to overloading the room.
If the 10 isn't quite enough, you can always mic it.
 
Maybe a few hundred.

Do you think it'd be better to try and focus the amp's sound toward the people, or to have it diffused by pointing at the wall or perpendicular to the audience's view?

The wall behind us has a curtain down it at least. but the floor is stone. The orchestra is playing on a stairway landing. I could put the amp at the edge of it pointed out toward the audience. Or I could bury it behind us. I tend to think that some people would bitch I was too loud if I put it toward the front, but I know that any of the important parts I have to play are going to be coated in pudding unless I did that.

I am not mic'd. The pianist is playing a clavinova run through a roland keyboard amp, but I think he is also direct injected, too. The bass player is on less than one and doesn't really have an issue. YOu can hear a fart at 20 paces in this place.
 
yeah definitely go with the 20watter. i used to use a 66 deluxe reverb for gigs such as the one you're describing and it always sounded as good as it could. using my jc-120 for gigs like that always sounds a bit thin. as for placement, i would definitely direct the sound towards the crowd, trying deflections is just going to give the audience more of that roomy sound you seem to be trying to avoid.
 
Lt. Bob said:
I'm gonna go with Zaphod on this. I'd use the smaller amp ....... if you're gonna have to play quietly, you're gonna be way happier with the sound than if you take that 50 watter and turn it almost off. technically 50 watts isn't that much louder than 20 but also you have the radiating area of the speakers to take into account and the 2-12s have a LOT more area which is gonna contribute to overloading the room.
If the 10 isn't quite enough, you can always mic it.


I can't get it out of my head that the 12-inch speaker will sound warmer than the 10 inch, but I a sliver of my brain knows you're right. I have a 16-ohm 12" speaker that I got from richard monroe, but I had it mounted up in a borrowd 412 cabinet to test it. This is like the third time that a gig has come up where I could have gotten away with the 20 watter, but I was scared to gig with a 10" speaker.

I think I am going to build a new combo cab for the classic 20 with a 12 or make it into a head or something. That amp sounds sweet, though. I had it retubed an biased a really long time ago and had the headphone out converted to line level mono. I don't use it near as much as I should on gigs.
 
Cehpus, I'd point the amp toward the audience - otherwise they'll only be hearing reflected sound (although they'll be hearing enough of that already.)

Maybe you could keep the amp towards the back, but raise it up on a few crates or something so that the sound clears the low-lying obstacles.
 
You have heard it with this many people in it, right?

Of course you know that they will absorb a lot of the reverb, but if they're chatting away, they'll also add to it. You actually might need some juice to get heard over them.

I always though places like this should have wall of curtains that they can retract when they don't want them, and unfurl them when they do. Just would make for a more pleasant experience all the way around, especially for the paying customers.

Sounds like a weird gig.

Good luck and take some pictures.
 
cephus said:
I can't get it out of my head that the 12-inch speaker will sound warmer than the 10 inch, but I a sliver of my brain knows you're right. I have a 16-ohm 12" speaker that I got from richard monroe, but I had it mounted up in a borrowd 412 cabinet to test it. This is like the third time that a gig has come up where I could have gotten away with the 20 watter, but I was scared to gig with a 10" speaker.

I think I am going to build a new combo cab for the classic 20 with a 12 or make it into a head or something. That amp sounds sweet, though. I had it retubed an biased a really long time ago and had the headphone out converted to line level mono. I don't use it near as much as I should on gigs.
That sounds like a good idea. Us geezer players often get these kinda gigs and a 20 watter would be way useful.
I had a 30 watt Laney that I found myself using a lot 'till it blowed up real good!
As for the 10 versus 12 .... that's a personal preference. Most of my git friends much prefer 12s but I tend the other way. I go out of my way to use 10s if at all possible. Maybe not as warm as a 12 but quicker and I like that midrange 'spank' that you get out of a 10.
But that's strictly my preference ..... not to be misinterpreted as advice since most players clearly are in the 12" camp.
I guess I just always have to be contrary.
:)
 
No. I have only been there when it was empty. I hope the people make a difference. This room is just about a cube. At one point there was supposed to be carpet under us and a curtain in between us and the audience. Then we could have played at a more comfortable level. They have a really nice old theater, too, but they just spend like 11 million dollars on this fart amplifier, so insisted on using it instead.

There are maybe three places where I have to be heard and need some volume headroom. To get that level, I have the amp volume set so that the volume pedal is barely cracked open the rest of the time I play. Mostly that is because I don't want to play the clangers too loud when the key changes to Gb and I tromp on a D natural. When I know what I'm doing (like it's in E A D or C), I want to crank it up to angus level, of course.

It's not that cool of a gig. It's a private high school musical. I have been doing it for a really long time. Maybe 15 years or more. The theater teacher is an old friend and he always has a retarded budget for the pit orchestra. I like to do them because I never read anymore. and it takes me completely out of the safe area of music that I actually like.

This time there was no guitar score, so all I had was the piano score. I totally can't read bass clef, so I had to go pretty much through the whole thing and write out the note names under the notes. I still can't recognize the fuckers on the staves. I have to do "all-cows-eat-grass" and "great-big-dogs-fight-animals". In my own defense, I can read treble clef pretty well monophonically. When there are chords written, it reboots me. I played brass.
 
play em both

i would take em both ...... point the smaller one at the crowd .... put the bigger one in the back .... :rolleyes:
 
Former trombone player here. All I ever really learned to read was bass clef.

After jr high I promptly proceeded to forget it as fast as possible.

If it's a place where people are standing, or sitting in rows like theater seating, then a couple hundred people can completely change the acoustics. If they're seated at tables, like a reception or something, it'll change, but not as much.

I would suggest being prepared for either possibility (meaning don't leave you're bigger rig at home just because you don't think you'll need it.)

Are there any dress rehearsals for this thing?
 
Full dress was last night. I thought my sound was absolute crap. I did use the 20 watter for a couple other rehearsals I got to go to. It sounded fine. I had to add some texture to a couple places that were getting that piano drone lameness, so I brought the pedalboard for the delay and chorus. I'm mostly covering horn and string type parts (that aren't even on the original score) just trying to tart it up where I can because the piano player just ten-fingers it through the whole thing.

The 50 watt one is already there, so I am bringing the 20 watt and gonna give it a shot. That 50 watt one is brutally loud I think. Even at bar gigs playing rock and roll I have the master at around 10 o'clock.
 
Not sure here.....

Are you being miced and going through a FOH/PA system?

If so i would think smaller would be better as long as you can hear yourself along with the others in the orchesta where you stand and play.

Let the PA do the work for the rest of the room/audience if there is one.

If not Im not too sure one or the other amp will make that big of a difference as far as the acoustics go. As far as tone goes not really sure either, probably a toss up.
As far as volume goes you may need the amp with more power/volume just to make sure you have it if you need it.
 
Back
Top