Thoughts on the Eleven Rack?

M3TA1

New member
As much as I tried to convince myself to spend $3kCAD on an Axe FX II, it's just not happening. I can't justify spending that much money on one single piece of gear. Especially not at the level I'm at.

As of now I am using all plugins to record guitars (Bias FX, Amplitube, also tried Helix Native and TSE Audio X50). While they are alright, they don't sound as good as I'd like and don't quite feel as good in terms of sound and response. I know that's a huge advantage to hardware, the feel.

I found a good deal on a used Eleven Rack and was wondering whether it's worth it. I found some YouTube demos and it sounds pretty awesome. I was wondering if anyone has experience with these? Both for just jamming and in the studio. How much do you have to tweak these things to get a good tone. My problem with these YouTube demos is I really don't know what has been done to get a good tone. Did they use a bunch of post-EQ to achieve that sound? Or other studio magic? I understand tweaking will have to be done to achieve my desired tone, my question is out of the box, can you get some pretty awesome tones?

I play primarily metal and rock so my main focus will be distorted tones.
 
I looked into that a couple years ago and my guess is the plugs/amp sims are as good. You get what you put into the amp sims.

The Line6HD stuff was able to nearly hit the Axe FX at a substantial cost drop, but then again the sims can too.

I came close to getting a used AXe FX II to try at home but even used it was $1800 or something.
Im sure the ELeven can make some good tracks maybe more work than the Axe FX?
I see the original Axe FX for $699 on Reverb...Ive always wondered if its as awesome as so many say.
 
I am mixing a project now for a band that uses the Fractal AXE FX for guitars. I must say they sound quite impressive. Much better than ANY amp sims I have dealt with. Even better than many mic'd tube amps I have recorded. But that is only relative to each setup. Impossible to make a judgment based on one experience. This is a heavy distortion rock project BTW.

That being said the guitar player is really good and so are his guitars. I have no direct use with the product but I am impressed with what I have heard from this 9 song recording started in a rehearsal space.

Will have a better opinion after I dig in to the mix after recording vocals.

Just my 2c of limited experience with it.
 
No doubt the Axe FX is a great product. The AX8 looks cool too. But again, price is a huge factor. I was super close to buying an Axe FX last month but after giving it some serious thought, I wouldn't be using everything in the unit and don't feel like I can spend that much money on something like that at this time.

In all my projects, I have used guitar VSTs. What I notice is I can get them to sound good in a mix, but playing through VSTs to jam or practice just doesn't feel or sound the same.

I'm hoping I can find a piece of hardware that solves my problems with VSTs. Another huge bonus for me is the feel of a real unit. Also, I can bring the unit anywhere, plug into a cab or PA and get my guitar tone. Sure that's possible with VSTs, but it's a bit of a pain to bring a laptop and interface and making the changes.
 
I am mixing a project now for a band that uses the Fractal AXE FX for guitars. I must say they sound quite impressive. Much better than ANY amp sims I have dealt with. Even better than many mic'd tube amps I have recorded. But that is only relative to each setup. Impossible to make a judgment based on one experience. This is a heavy distortion rock project BTW.

That being said the guitar player is really good and so are his guitars. I have no direct use with the product but I am impressed with what I have heard from this 9 song recording started in a rehearsal space.

Will have a better opinion after I dig in to the mix after recording vocals.

Just my 2c of limited experience with it.

thats realtime experience, interesting as hell because Ive heard others write the same.

isnt distortion the whole game? I mean I dont feel it was too much trouble for clean type guitars, its always the dirt-fuzz distortion tones that are hard.

what would be the best experiences you have had? the Rack DI thing makes it easier to do for a lot of HR gearheads.
 
I have a friend who had the fractal stuff. He was actually instrumental in the development if it. He went from digitech stuff to the 11 rack to the fractal.
Recently he ditched it in favor of a ampli-FIRE pedal. 9 different amps along with cab impulse responses are in this pedal. One tiny box that fits in your pedalboard.
I think you can only have 9 at a time but they can be programed and swapped out at will.
As far as 11 rack, I think the hardware setup is better than most amp sims. It's definately better than the free 11rack sim that comes with protools.

But I gotta say, I'm super impressed with the Ampli-FIRE pedal. He and I shot a demo video for a guitar and it sold me.
He had a 69 Marshall Plexi in the studio. I asked, "why don't we use that?". He laughed and said "I got it programed into my pedal" Sure sounded like it.
:D
 
Those all look like way cool digital devices...but I'm curious what kind of players have a real need for that many options in one box?
I guess if you do lots of covers and need a multitude of tones and FX sounds that you can quick dial in with a press of a button...or maybe the guys who play big event/show gigs, where there are many changes to music style and sound.

I dunno...I would rather drop $2k-$3k on another amp than any of these boxes. :D
I mean, I have three shelves full of pedals...and I would be hard pressed to use maybe 1-2 at any time, if that.
That said...I've seen the guys who have those monster pedal boards, with like 20 pedals on them...:p...so I can see the desire to reduce it down to one box.
It's not so much just the tons of FX/processing that you get with the boxes...but how often to you need 20 different amp flavors? If anything, I've been on the "reduction" path...slowly thinning out my amp stable down to the 3, maybe 4 amps, but out of that, there's really two that are like the 80% got to amps.

Not talking anything bad about these boxes...they sure could a great benefit to a busy studio, where you need that kind of flexibility...but as a player, I'm more into the "find your tone"...or maybe, your 2-3 main tones, and that's the sound to build around.
Yeah, there's always occasion for something "different" for a certain song, but it's easy to just grab a pedal that covers it.
 
Also once a good guitar amp sound is recorded you can tweak it ITB with all kinds of effects after the fact. I think a lot of folks get these modeling setups so they can record without an amp and still get that "sound" or they dont have any way to record a live amp. But frankly to my ears, it wont ever sound the same. I agree with miro that I'd rather have another amp and even pass the signal through a power soak straight from the speaker outs to my interface if I couldn't get loud. not ideal but doable. Some modern amps even have built in mic outs with cab sims available if noise abatement is required. Again, I prefer to mic an amp but for budget friendly simulation I tend to think they all sound about the same quality wise. The selection becomes what tone your going for and is it available with "X" or "Y" box.
 
Oh I get it for the guys who can't record an amp in their space...but still, you can avoid an amp a lot of different ways without having to buy one of these "monster" boxes that give you dozens of FX/Processing options and all kinds of amp modeling.

I also wouldn't see much point in modeling an amp I already own, so I can then use the modeled version of it...???...but getting dozens of modeled amps that you don't own, that's different, but again, when are that many amps needed for the typical/basic players who are usually more into finding their signature tones rather than constantly dialing through dozens of tones at every gig or recording situation.

I get the feeling much of this is the same as it is with plugins....we buy countless plugins, we hoard...:D...but in reality, we often end up using specific ones regularly rather than always going through everything we have.
It's more about some feeling/need to have many, many, many options...or if not, then the feeling that by not having that many, somehow leaves us "short", like we're going to miss out on something that someone else has.

Anyway...just curious who the players are that buy this stuff...and why they really need it. I'm sure there are some valid reasons, but not necessarily for everyone.

For me...I think buying actual amps and/or pedals is a better investment.
 
Oh I get it for the guys who can't record an amp in their space...but still, you can avoid an amp a lot of different way without having to buy one of these kinds "monster" boxes that give you dozens of FX/Processing options and all kind of amp modeling.
I also wouldn't see much point in modeling an amp I already own...so I can then use the modeled version of it...???...but getting dozens of modeled amps that you don't own, that's different, but again, when are that many amps needed for the typical/basic players who are more about finding their signature tones rather than constantly dialing through dozens of tones.

I get the feeling much of this is the same as it is with plugins....we buy countless plugins, we hoard...:D...but in reality, we often end up using specific ones regularly rather than always going through everything we have.
It's more about some feeling/need to have many, many, many options...or if not, then the feeling that by not having that many, somehow leaves us "short", like we're going to miss out on something that someone else has.

Anyway...just curious who the players are that buy this stuff...and why they really need it. I'm sure there are some valid reasons, but not necessarily for everyone.

There is also the live venue use for such a reliable solid state form of worthy guitar tones. I have heard of many small and large scale touring bands using them because it is less likely to be destroyed in a bad fall than a tube amp.

One Fractal and a backup take 4 rack spaces. Two heads with spare tubes and the actually filled speaker cabinets are expensive to move. Many small touring bands use a backline of gear supplied by locals. If you want your tone, much easier/cheaper to bring a small carry-on rack and a guitar than to depend on the promoter to get it right.
 
I like amps. :D
I could get by with ok with only one or two guitars, but I gotta have amps! (Plural)
:D
 
I like amps. :D
I could get by with ok with only one or two guitars, but I gotta have amps! (Plural)
:D

Me Too!!!! :)

I not playing favor to the sims. Just describing what I have heard and how it can work. Nothing better than the real deal ever IMO.
 
There is also the live venue use for such a reliable solid state form of worthy guitar tones. I have heard of many small and large scale touring bands using them because it is less likely to be destroyed in a bad fall than a tube amp.

One Fractal and a backup take 4 rack spaces. Two heads with spare tubes and the actually filled speaker cabinets are expensive to move. Many small touring bands use a backline of gear supplied by locals. If you want your tone, much easier/cheaper to bring a small carry-on rack and a guitar than to depend on the promoter to get it right.


Well yeah...I mentioned that for some events/shows I can see the value, though frankly, there's still a lot of small and large bands who do just fine carrying their prized amps and guitars...because that's what works for their tones.

My question was more aimed at the average players (I mean average where/what...not how they play)...the need for that much amp modeling and FX processing power.
 
Well yeah...I mentioned that for some events/shows I can see the value, though frankly, there's still a lot of small and large bands who do just fine carrying their prized amps and guitars...because that's what works for their tones.

My question was more aimed at the average players (I mean average where/what...not how they play)...the need for that much amp modeling and FX processing power.

I am not sure that is the point. I don't think it is the options needed for any performance or recording that are needed at any given time. The fact that the ones they use sound good. Not the need for a multitude of sounds.

The best guitar players I have heard in my time have been guys that use one basic amp/tone that fits them. Some pedals or a A/B amp to perform the other tasks if needed. One of these amp sim things - if sound good to them, may make it easier. Use maybe one or two settings. Not the need to have multiple. I do not see that as the need or point of them using it....

The need for 'that much' seems more to me the ability to find a way to get the tone they are looking for in a reliable small package.

I just stated that I found respect for the tone from a guy I am mixing for that has really good tone with it. He has possibly better in his tube amps. I was just saying what I heard and the possible benefits. Not arguing that an amp isn't better.
 
I am not sure that is the point. I don't think it is the options needed for any performance or recording that are needed at any given time. The fact that the ones they use sound good. Not the need for a multitude of sounds.

The best guitar players I have heard in my time have been guys that use one basic amp/tone that fits them. Some pedals or a A/B amp to perform the other tasks if needed. One of these amp sim things - if sound good to them, may make it easier. Use maybe one or two settings. Not the need to have multiple. I do not see that as the need or point of them using it....

The need for 'that much' seems more to me the ability to find a way to get the tone they are looking for in a reliable small package.

Well OK...I think you're confirming what I was saying...that most guys usually go for a couple/three tones, and that's their bread-n-butter.

Now I agree with you that these "boxes" are way cool in how much power they pack in a small footprint. I'm just saying that it's overkill if you just need those couple of basic tones for most things. Sure, these boxes are quite compact...but I don't think most guys who get them, do so mainly for the "size" thing (no pun intended :D).
I still think it IS mostly because of the multitude of options they can have...and I was just questioning (besides the scenarios we both noted) the need to have that many options, if in fact you're going to usually go with those couple of tones that are your signature.

I see these as just the new technology, and we all generally love new technology.
I don't do much outside recording, but if I was, it would be smart having one of these babies in the studio to cover any/all needs at the drop of a hat.

Again, I don't argue their use, or miss the obvious cases where they would be the more "efficient" choice over some involved backline.
I was mainly wondering how many typical home/club players really need that much power and options to get their guitar tones...not to mention, I also think they are not the same as using a guitar amp and cab. I've heard some of the modeling, and it's very close, but it's not the same...but that's a different discussion.

Maybe some of the guys here who have/use them regularly, would chime in as to why they needed them in place of more traditional guitar rigs.
Like I said...I would drop $2k-$3k on an amp about 10 times faster than I would on any of these boxes...but that's me. I'm like RFR...love them amps. :p

That project you mentioned...did you track the guitars at your place with the Fractal rig...or did they just send you tracks for mixing?
 
Anyway...just curious who the players are that buy this stuff...and why they really need it. I'm sure there are some valid reasons, but not necessarily for everyone.


I cant speak about why the masses buy it but can impart some info on my friend.

He's been touring, doing session work, clinics, and working on his own solo stuff in his studio for decades.
Now in his late 50s, and fighting cancer to boot, he's just tired of carrying crap around. Lol :D Still does a lot of gigs and clinics worldwide

With his current rig he doesn't need roadies. As long as there's a good PA system, he's good to go. The plexi stays at home and he has it in his pedal.
So I'd imagine everyone has their own reasons. But since the computer age it seems like a lot of people want smaller.


Edit:
Oh, and in his studio, he records it just like an amp. The digital trickery goes into a crown stereo power amp with 2 full range cabs miced up.
 
I cant speak about why the masses buy it but can impart some info on my friend.

He's been touring, doing session work, clinics, and working on his own solo stuff in his studio for decades.
Now in his late 50s, and fighting cancer to boot, he's just tired of carrying crap around. Lol :D Still does a lot of gigs and clinics worldwide

With his current rig he doesn't need roadies. As long as there's a good PA system, he's good to go. The plexi stays at home and he has it in his pedal.
So I'd imagine everyone has their own reasons. But since the computer age it seems like a lot of people want smaller.

See...that makes total sense. He needs many options and he needs them on the road.

I guess I'm asking more about the home/club guys...but then, it may just be your typical GAS that drives them to buy these. Another toy, another tool. :)
 
It all makes perfect sense if we just look at the love/ addiction people have with tech gadgets combined with good old fashioned musician GAS.
:D

Edit: just below my post there was an ad. "It only takes one hour to learn guitar" hahaha!
Sign me up! Shit, I've been learning for years. And in one hour I'll be done??? Great. Lol :D
 
That project you mentioned...did you track the guitars at your place with the Fractal rig...or did they just send you tracks for mixing?

No. The guitars were recorded at the bands rehearsal space. Budget concerns and such I have been offering ways for them to get a good recording there. Surely enough two years later and even the live drums sound quite good. At least workable.

The Fractal amp recordings surprised me as I always knew the guy as a tube amp dood with great tone. He still feels his tone is better with the amp combo, but found it easier to record this record without it.

Again, I am just sharing my limited personal experience with this. Not judging or giving other than my opinion so far with this project. And yeah, it is quite heavy tones that Axe FX seems to be quite better at than the run of the mill amp 'sims'. At basically the same expense as a good head.

Only time will tell... Not saying it good or bad, just saying I am impressed with the tone I was given...
 
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