Thoughts on the Eleven Rack?

Me Too!!!! :)

I not playing favor to the sims. Just describing what I have heard and how it can work. Nothing better than the real deal ever IMO.

I will still use old 8 bit architecture FX straight to interface for just the lovely crappy sound when needed. And lets face it , far enough back in a non guitar centered track, live may be best but sim wont be really noticed. Still - amps rule!
 
One of the biggest advantages to using amp modelers is the convenience factor. You have all these different amps, cabs, and effects in one box. Sure they don't sound exactly like the real deal, but it's pretty close. Especially when it's in a full mix, you really can't tell it's an amp modeler for the most part. I use amp sim software for my production and I can get them to sound good in the mix to my liking. However, it's more jamming through plugins I have a problem with. It doesn't feel the same as my tube amp.
Which is now why I'm turning to hardware modeling to see how the less expensive ones compare to VST.
 
One of the biggest advantages to using amp modelers is the convenience factor. You have all these different amps, cabs, and effects in one box.

..........


However, it's more jamming through plugins I have a problem with. It doesn't feel the same as my tube amp.

Oh for sure...having 30 amps and 50 effects packed into one box conveniently gives you a lot of options...but *apart from the specific performance situations already noted earlier*, I find that a lot of players tend to stick to their 2 maybe 3 tones.
Once in awhile you may toss in something really different, but it seems like players tend to find their sound, and that's pretty much it.
IOW...how often does anyone need to dial through 30 amps and 50 effects every time before they can find the tone they're going to use?

And yes, I agree...when it comes to actual playing/jamming...I don't care what anyone tries to say about sims and modelers and cab/speaker emulators...ain't nothing like a tube amp and speaker cab talking back to you as you play. :cool:
 
Oh for sure...having 30 amps and 50 effects packed into one box conveniently gives you a lot of options...but *apart from the specific performance situations already noted earlier*, I find that a lot of players tend to stick to their 2 maybe 3 tones.
Once in awhile you may toss in something really different, but it seems like players tend to find their sound, and that's pretty much it.
IOW...how often does anyone need to dial through 30 amps and 50 effects every time before they can find the tone they're going to use?

And yes, I agree...when it comes to actual playing/jamming...I don't care what anyone tries to say about sims and modelers and cab/speaker emulators...ain't nothing like a tube amp and speaker cab talking back to you as you play. :cool:

Agreed with point 1. :)

I'll take a stab at the second question: I would guess because most cant afford or have ability to have quality time with 30 amps or 50 effects? Seems reasonable. :D

Point 2 is obvious. Nothing compares to the real deal. Ever. :thumbs up:
 
I would guess because most cant afford or have ability to have quality time with 30 amps or 50 effects? Seems reasonable. :D

Oh for sure...buying one modeling box VS 30 amps is easy math. That said, I don't think it's all about the money. I mean, there are guys who can afford 30 amps or even more, but I think most of the time, only a few are getting played regularly.

While 30 amps is way beyond my budget...I have 8 of them in the studio right now (I think I've had a total of 15 or so different amps in my lifetime)...and right now, I'm trying to unload at least 3 of them. Why..?...because they don't get played.
Not because they suck or anything, but because I found 2-3 amps that give me the tones I want, the tones I've been after over the years. The others are great amps, and to someone else they might have the right tones...but I'm just not using them.
IOW...I never go through all 8 amps when I'm going to do some recording, just because I have 8 amps...and if I had 30, I would probably still focus on the 2-3 that give me the tones I really want.

I'm just saying that I think (I may be wrong) but that many players are like that...they find their tones, and that's it. Sometimes you get the itch to try something new, but if you really have found your tones...you just keep going back to them.
Now if you're still searching for your tones...then keep auditioning amps. :)

That said...from a studio production point of view...the modeling box, loaded with amp sims, is certainly a sweet "carrot" for a busy studio and clients that want to try out a new virtual amp, or who are undecided on the tones they want for the session. If I was running an open door studio...I would consider it, 'cuz I got no more room for real amps! :D
Besides my "tone hunt" over the years...one of the reasons I kept buying and keeping amps was because of the thought of doing more outside recording, and having more choices for people...but I didn't really pursue that course, so now I want to unload a few of them...make room for some other toys. ;)

I think you should get one of the amp modeling boxes...you appear to be busy enough with outside stuff.
 
I got a bunch of nice amps. But still, one of my faves is my 74 Fender Vibro-Champ.
Talk about two or three tones....this does one lol :D
 
Technology is always changing. I'm in the camp that likes real amps, so I don't have much direct experience with sims to offer. I was very surprised to see Steve Howe playing through a Line 6 when I saw Yes a couple of years ago, but it didn't stop me from enjoying the show.

A few people really like the Kemper amps. I guess if you have a coveted Supro or whatever that has the magic sound, you can profile that specific amp. People that otherwise might not have any use for amp sims have been impressed with the results.

One of the drawbacks of the digital side can be option paralysis. I can get the sound of my Champ very quickly. All I have to do is plug in.
 
Technology is always changing. I'm in the camp that likes real amps, so I don't have much direct experience with sims to offer. I was very surprised to see Steve Howe playing through a Line 6 when I saw Yes a couple of years ago, but it didn't stop me from enjoying the show.

A few people really like the Kemper amps. I guess if you have a coveted Supro or whatever that has the magic sound, you can profile that specific amp. People that otherwise might not have any use for amp sims have been impressed with the results.

One of the drawbacks of the digital side can be option paralysis. I can get the sound of my Champ very quickly. All I have to do is plug in.

thats so damn true....too many options. its one thing the Fender Mustang got kind of right, they kept it somewhat limited but still more than needed. imo.

i still think at a minimum have a tube preamp, those can really help take the brittle out is a nice middle ground.

the Punk show I saw this weekend was all Marshall heads on 4 x12's....with Ampeg bass rigs for the most. However they all had one sound. Punk isnt known for finesse of tones either , though they seem to go for that loud mud in your face speed sound yelling into a 58 scream thing.

the Yes bands and many others, require so many sounds you either learn to program in option paralysis or are in pedal hell....not sure which is worse. buy up batteries or wall warts....

the ELeven and line6's all that probably has some great tones and 1000 others Id never use. I wonder about the Radial Amp simulator you run pedals into, that might be a good DI way to go?
 
JB seems to have moved on to the basic setup and likes it for now.
my sons played through a great 1989 Johnson modelling amp for 9yrs and counting....(we bought it $189 and this thing sounds great and is just amazing, never dreamed it would last 9yrs and hundreds of gigs not counting practices! geeez)

but the point is, with the trend data of 9yrs, the breakdown is this:
90% of the time Clean and Distortion, two channel for 90% of the songs. (simple)
10% of the songs maybe some Reverb and on only a couple tunes flangy-delay lead.(FX)

ymmv.....

the only main problems with the amp is having too much. the Bank button accidentally hit throws the amp into Patch hell.or the settings get erased somehow and when on stage there has been the ruined groove due to bank changes and finding the way back stepping on a wrong floor pedal button.
Bank is enough...1 bank and 20 patches .... I bank.....Patch 1 = clean, Patche 2=Distortion Patch 3= reverb Patch 4= delay 5= flange phaser thats enough! lol

even McDonalds knows not to have 4000 happy combo meal options on their drive-thru menu.
as posted upthread it was mentioned the designer engineer developing the 9 options, thats about my speed too...9 or 10, thats more than enough.
 
Agree, normally I buy box, sit down and try every single combination then come back to using 3-5 regularly. But I will use one for just jamming. Monkeying with the presets you don't normally use can be a good way to come up with weird and wonderful riffs and crazy stuff. At least it works for me.
 
I see Sweetwater has the Eleven for $349 brand new, with ProTools first.
Not bad for what it is and considering its also going to cover Bass DI, has it own near zero latency Mic Preamp for Vocal, and a USB 8channel simultaneous Interface tracks (only one for FX realtime).

probably more aimed for those who dont have guitar amp isolation rooms. the key then is listening and adjusting using the room monitors not closed back headphones that blurr the sound so much.

Eleven vs PlugIns ?
Eleven vs POD HD PRO?
Eleven vs Real Amp w/ isolation room?
 
One Fractal and a backup take 4 rack spaces.

I went to see Book of Mormon a few Months ago. During intermission I peaked into the Orchestra pit. That is what the guitarist had. He sounded pretty good.

The drummer was playing in a non-permanent enclosed octagon room.
 
I went to see Book of Mormon a few Months ago. During intermission I peaked into the Orchestra pit. That is what the guitarist had. He sounded pretty good.

The drummer was playing in a non-permanent enclosed octagon room.

Well...like Bonamassa said in the clip I posted..."that's the reality for some guys"...and he wasn't commenting on how it all sounds.
I think he was only trying to say that playing like that, through all those digital and MIDI-fied rigs, is far removed from playing guitar through an amp/cab...both for the sound and the interaction the player gets with the amp/cab. It's obviously not important to some folks to have the amps/cabs in some cases, or ever anymore...while others want it, like Bonamassa.

Last night I was playing guitar, and it still surprises me how much a subtle bump of the amp's knobs and/or playing position can yield dramatic results in the sound perception for the player...and I think if you don't feel that "sweet spot" when you play...you're playing isn't as good or inspired interactively. I mean, it's one thing to listen to recorded playback and make adjustments to suit your production goals, and another thing to dialing in what you need as you play, in the moment.
If all is right...both things are found simultaneously.
 
Good post Miro.

All this stuff has it's uses, that's for sure. If it wasn't useful there'd be no market.

However, the real amp thing, thats a whole different level. Some guys think that their 'instrument' is only the guitar.

That's only half of the instrument. The amp is the other half. Learning to 'play' both, in particular how to get them to interact and 'talk to each other', thats key.
When you can get both to 'sing', that's when you're in the sweet spot.
There is the point when all the magic begins.
:D
 
I suppose I could pontificate a moment on this subject. I own a studio. I also have lots of amps boutique and off the shelf. Love them. I have played through as well as have recorded all of the "big three" Fractal, Kemper and Eleven Rack. I own three Eleven racks for a simple reason....they FEEL like an amp. While the others do have the the DSP to emulate many popular amp sounds and do it quite well, they didn't feel much different than just plugging into the ProTools and using a program in the library. The Avid people, bless their black-hearted pointy little heads, have gotten the input sensitivity correct on the Eleven. Of course there's way more noises in it than ANYONE is ever going to actually use and here-in lies the exact reason for three of them. I have one in my studio rack with all the preamps and patchbay etc. It has it's own converter, an Apogee Rosetta 200 with a HD 192 card for it. I don't use the digital outs, just use it as an analog preamp that happens to have guitar amp programs in it. No latency. Zero. I don't need the PT part of it so I haven't bought one with the software. The second one is in a rolling rack. It has a midi controller hooked to it, a VooDoo Lab Ground Control Pro. All of every noise I want is programmed by the controller and I have mine set up exactly like a pedalboard with a single button for this and that as well as have narrowed down my selection of amps and the type of effect I want to use. I primarily use the clean AC-30, a Plexi, a clean Bogner, and various Fender amps.

This also allows me, in the studio, to take tracks from two guitars and a bass for live off-the-floor captures with a live drum kit and no bleed. They can be scratch tracks or keepers depending upon the project.

In a dense mix I can't tell which might be which as far as a live amp and the Eleven and I have discerning ears.

As an analog input device for studio work and live venues where you might need some different sounds you can't easily pedal up for they are a bargain. I paid less than the price of a Fractal for three of em. But that's not the key to it.....I have boutique amps in the 2K range....these just feel like an amp and thats the really important part.
 
And here lies the old adage of what works for you works for any individual.

It is different for every studio owner or dude recording. If it works for you, you are going to use it. We all have our own devoted love of whatever.

There is no right or wrong. Telling another what is right is like walking uphill both ways to school in the snow without shoes bullshit.

But there is also the level of experience that home recording guys have. On the budget, many tend to use the free stuff. That doesn't work so well when getting to the next level. Or does it?

Just banter from me. :)


If it works for the level of quality one is looking to achieve? Well, then there it is. Producah says? :D
 
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