Staying in tune

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Fusioninspace

New member
I keep seeing threads about how certain guitars don't stay in tune... One general concept is that the expensive guitars stay in tune and the cheap ones don't.

This is weird - I've never had a problem with ANY of my guitars staying in tune! Just keep relatively fresh strings on and make sure the intonation is correct.

The only magic that I've found is the method you use to attach the strings to the tuner. I use the "Martin" method and my strings never slip.

That's all it takes to keep any guitar in tune. My kids $70 Squire Bullet stays in tune as good as my Hamer.
 
Fusioninspace said:
I keep seeing threads about how certain guitars don't stay in tune... One general concept is that the expensive guitars stay in tune and the cheap ones don't.

This is weird - I've never had a problem with ANY of my guitars staying in tune! Just keep relatively fresh strings on and make sure the intonation is correct.

The only magic that I've found is the method you use to attach the strings to the tuner. I use the "Martin" method and my strings never slip.

That's all it takes to keep any guitar in tune. My kids $70 Squire Bullet stays in tune as good as my Hamer.
Click to expand...

Well, tuners, as a rule, don't slip, even the cheap ones. In a worm gear and pinion, you cannot rotate the worm gear by forcing the pinion.

I also don't use any "magic" method of attaching the string; if you have enough wraps, they don't slip. Some will say that too many wraps is a problem because the strings stretch within the wraps. I wrap my unwound strings down to the headstock and I have never once encountered that phenomenon, YMMV. Doing anything complicated at the hole through the peg just makes it a PITA to get them off when it's time to change strings.

The most common tuning problem I have encountered is friction/sticking in the nut, especially with my floating bridge Strat, but I have seen it in rigid guitars as well. If you do a big bend on an unwound string and it goes flat, squeeze down on that string between the nut and peg and see if it comes back. That's not slippage, that's a nut squeeze.
 
I think one of the biggest reasons we hear about guitars not staying in tune has to do with the workmanship involved in properly securing the neck to the body. That said, the factories also cannot always maintain an "ideal" environment (climate) inwhich to store their stock materials, and they sometimes wind up using wood(s) that are not "settled" or "stable". Even the glues they use are subject to environmental variables.
When you look closely at the entire build process, especially the truss-rod, it's a fairly complicated matter to closely adhere to the design specs. When one part of the process is completed, and just barely meets the tolerance specification, it passes inspection and moves on to the next process. Then, let's say, this next process gets completed and also just barely meets the tolerance specification. By the time the guitar is completely built, if it had maybe 2 or 3 processes that just barely passed inspection, this can result in the guitar being "rejected" at final inspection. It's referred to as "tolerance-stackup", and leaves the manufacturer with two options--scrap it, or workout a deal with some other company that will take the guitar and use it in a "promotional" campaign--i.e. collect enough Marlboro-Miles, send Marlboro $50, and you'll receive a "reject" guitar that has no brand-name, model sticker, etc. It may only have a "Made in China" sticker on it. A lot of times these "promotional" guitars were rejected at the factory simply because of superficial "blemishes" on the wood that probably didn't even show up until the guitar was "finished". Other times, a guitar can pass final inspection with the aforementioned construction "tolerance-stackup" going unnoticed at the factory. These are probably the ones that you hear people complaining about NOT staying in tune.
 
Staying in tune in my experience (rock/metal bands) has to do with:

A - How you put the strings on the guitar. How many winds on the machine, if you loop it through twice, and most importantly: stretching your strings properly! All strings stretch while you put 'em on & while you're playing, the better you pre-stretch them, the less out-of-tune they get.

B - Using the proper string gauge for the tuning you're in. Again, this is from my experience with is primarily in dropped tunings (not crazy A-standard or anything, but drop-B/C/D is low enough). If you use too light or too heavy gauge strings, you're gonna go out of tune 'cause the string will be more or less tensioned than it was designed for.

C - Your playing. If you play really fucking hard like I do (the only way to get a really heavy, dark, chunky tone is to play it that way!), you're bound to go out of tune occasionally. Thus, I use a heavier-gauge string most of the time. If I get in a more shreddy/solo-y mood, I'll switch up a gauge (down? whichever is lighter).


The other factors mentioned are equally valid (guitar design, etc.), just haven't made much of a difference in my limited experience. By far, the best-designed guitar I've ever owned stay-in-tune-wise, was an ibanez s520 with the z-trem. You could throw the thing off a damn house and it'd be in tune!
 
One thing I've heard is that too many wraps can make the angle from the back of the nut too steep, causing the string to bind. That's just what I've heard, mind you.:D I personally don't use the string tree for the D on strats most of the time, to me it seems to bind easily with trem work.
 
boingoman said:
One thing I've heard is that too many wraps can make the angle from the back of the nut too steep, causing the string to bind. That's just what I've heard, mind you.:D I personally don't use the string tree for the D on strats most of the time, to me it seems to bind easily with trem work.
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Hmm, hadn't heard that one but I guess depending on the structural integrity of the guitar and accompanying pieces, it could have merit! Personally, I use locking tuners and thus have zero tuning problems :)
 
When someone is having tuning problems the first thing I wonder is if it is the guitar or the method? I see plenty on players with perfectly fine axes that don't play in tune.
The biggest mistake I see is grabbing the tuner and start twisting the key back and forth until it reads good. No Good.
A plan--
Approach from below pitch.
Come up a little at a time, alternating with strumming/turning to let the string find it's natural 'set'.

If it's from significantly below (anywhere near a half step?) do all of the strings to 'just below to work out the guitar's flex in this, and work up from there in smaller steps.

Don't cross over high of pitch.

Don't even bother trying to hit that final' pitch if the instrument isn't at your body/playing temperature.

Re-tune at the end of the set while it's at temperature- not when you get back off the damnd break!
(Think about it. :rolleyes::D
 
I have an USA Gibson SG-I and a USA Gibson Gary Moore Sig. Les Paul. They both have been setup by the same guitar man, and does a 80 dollar job on a guitar. The SG goes out of tune more often than the Les Paul. THe Les Paul is solid. It stays in tune like a champ. There is something about the sg that makes it go out of tune one string at a time occasionally. I use the same winding method on both guitars. It has to be the makeup of the wood somehow.
 
steve.h said:
Staying in tune in my experience (rock/metal bands) has to do with:

A - How you put the strings on the guitar... if you loop it through twice...
Click to expand...

I never, ever do that. A friend recommended it and I tried it... once. It had zero impact on my tuning and made it a gold plated PITA when it came time to get them off. I don't subscribe at all to the theory that a string can pull through the hole and go flat, unless maybe you've got only a wrap or two on a skinny unwound string.

Try this (I did): After your strings are on (the once-through way) and settled, make a sharp bend in the excess a measured distance out from the peg. Every so often throughout the life of the strings, measure that distance to see if it has decreased; it would have to decrease if the string were being pulled through the hole. When I ran that experiment I never saw even a millimeter's change in that measurement, even on the thinnest unwound strings.

So do that twice-through thing if you want. The first time you break a high E string on stage and have to replace it in a hurry, you'll regret it, I'll wager.
 
gcapel said:
I have an USA Gibson SG-I and a USA Gibson Gary Moore Sig. Les Paul. They both have been setup by the same guitar man, and does a 80 dollar job on a guitar. The SG goes out of tune more often than the Les Paul. THe Les Paul is solid. It stays in tune like a champ. There is something about the sg that makes it go out of tune one string at a time occasionally. I use the same winding method on both guitars. It has to be the makeup of the wood somehow.
Click to expand...
SGs do have a lot of neck sticking out there.
I've always played 335 and 355 but always had a real soft spot for the SG's. :D But even with my acoustics', but about half the time they're pretty much in tune straight out of the case. :)
 
ggunn said:
I never, ever do that. A friend recommended it and I tried it... once. It had zero impact on my tuning and made it a gold plated PITA when it came time to get them off. I don't subscribe at all to the theory that a string can pull through the hole and go flat, unless maybe you've got only a wrap or two on a skinny unwound string.

Try this (I did): After your strings are on (the once-through way) and settled, make a sharp bend in the excess a measured distance out from the peg. Every so often throughout the life of the strings, measure that distance to see if it has decreased; it would have to decrease if the string were being pulled through the hole. When I ran that experiment I never saw even a millimeter's change in that measurement, even on the thinnest unwound strings.

So do that twice-through thing if you want. The first time you break a high E string on stage and have to replace it in a hurry, you'll regret it, I'll wager.
Click to expand...

Like I said, it's one option. I use locking, self-cutting tuners 'cause they take no time to replace strings. Also, you should have a backup guitar sitting around :)
 
Also, many don't know how to do a tempered tuning. I just learned how recently, actually, and it certainly helps with my nylon string (which, although a decent solid-wood hand-made guitar, will be about 30 cents flat on the top 3 strings after sitting in the case overnight). In any case, I have to tune the G string 7th fretted and the B string 3rd fretted to the D string 12th fret harmonic. If I try to just use an electronic tuner, it is out of tune in certain places up the neck.

I just had a mjor headache with an Ibanez Artcore, though, which wouldn't stay in tune, had a nasty, undiscoverable rattle, and so was exchanged. My new one is just fine.

I had a Standard SG that wouldn't stay in tune, even after Grovers, graphite in the nut, etc.

Also, had an Ibanez 12 string that wouldn't stay in tune to save its life. It died a horrible death.

There are lemons in every bunch out of the factory, I guess, and I apparently have had 3 of them, so far.
 
Second the Martin-method. But I only play good ol' Hecho In USA instruments.:D:cool:

Improper intonation will make tuning a nightmare.

I did at one point purchase a lefty curly maple mando from a guy, Gil Schlicting of Sparks NV about 17 years ago at the Grass Valley Bluegrass Festival that just wouldn't hold the shape of its' neck. I had Rick Turner work on it with steam to straighten it but it was no use. Gil put another neck on it that failed too. He eventually bought the mando back after about 2 years. I thought that was pretty stand-up of him.

It was a barker too. Damn shame it couldn't be properly tuned.
 
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