staying in tune

mixmkr

mixmkr

we don't need rest!!
is there a secret I am not getting? I have owned and still own some decent guitars, from a Guild Starfire, to a Ric, to a Les Paul, 80's Amer. strat, Gibson L6S...on and on. But I could never keep these pups in tune, especially the G string, but mainly them all. I know I wind the strings on proper, have good tuning keys, Grovers, Schallers, even guitars without whammy bars. I have used Fender Super Bullets, whatever else...and go with medium gauges. The light strings get even worse. I do like to play aggressive and bend strings quite a bit, but when I go for some 1st position chords like your open C, D, G, they all sound pretty bad after a little playing. I can get them in tune originally, but they won't stay there...so I don't think the guitars are setup bad. Take them to a setup expert, play them in front of them?...is that my choice?...
 
I know this may be king of obvious for someone with your experience, but perhaps it's the tuning technique. Whenever I tune I come up from low tension to high. If I overshoot and go sharp, I'll usually loosen it up a bit (undershoot) and start again. This way that the strings get nudged slightly over nut and saddle. It is important that the segments of string at the headstock and below the saddle have either the same or preferably slightly MORE tension than the segment of string between nut and saddle, where you play. This way, when you bend notes you don't take up slack. Take up this slack ahead of time!

After tuning I always tugg on the string with the left hand (i.e. pull straight away from the guitar body about a half inch or so and release gently without letting it slap down hard like a rubber band.) That does it for me, unless of course the strings are still new and stretching.

what gauge are you using anyway?
 
yeah...I like to come "up" to the note when tuning too. Like I said, my problem is staying in tune once tuned. When I string my instruments, I run the string thru the tuner with the excess end BELOW the FIRST wrap. Then I grab the excess end and hold it up while I add the final wraps (usually three to four). This way the string wraps over itself on the second wrap and then neatly wraps on the drum of the tuner to finish up(coiling down the peg towards the headstock). Maybe this is a bad way, but what I have been told over the last 25 years to basically do..and also what I have been doing. My favorite strings are the Fender Super Bullets... .010 .013 .017 .026 .036 .046 I am open to any string set actually. I just have been using these for a long time....and it is one of the heavier gauged sets I could find without the wound third without buying single strings. I can go with heavy strings..not a problem. Maybe buying single string sets??
 
follow pchormans advice about tugging the strings and retuning, this helps a lot. Do you have a good tuner? I've got a tuner that (can't remember the name of it) that sticks temporarily to the front of the guitar and tunes by resonance. This little tuner is the best I have used and it is very sensitve and accurate. Also try tuning with natural harmonics. Try a different brand of strings to see if it helps. I use D'addairio 10's and 11's....
 
thanks for the replies, guys. Yeah, I tug on the strings, expecially new ones. I CAN tune the guitar...that aint the problem. I do a train wreck guitar solo, and I am hung out to dry...don't expect any chords then afterwards.
 
sounds like you really Rambo that fretboard. that may just be the price to be paid for being such a note bending animal!
 
I used to have the same problem it seems like a hundred years ago . Now I use guitars with floyds and nut locks but don't use the whammy bars (Ibanez pro-line strat and jem jr.)As a matter of fact I have the Floyds blocked with a piece of wood and I bend strings like crazy and bend the neck too . I tune up about once a week . I also use Markleys but don't know if strings make any difference .
 
If you can get it in tune to start with, then it has to be sticking in the nut, bridge, or moving at the machine post.
The method i use for tying on strings is to put the string through the post and wrap toward the peghead and under the string where it first entered the post, then bend it over the string. That makes the string clamp down on itself the first half turn it makes. Use graphite in the nut slots.and stretch, strech, stretch, the strings out.
 
You know, I used to have the same problem you have but over the years it's kinda worked itself out. I think it's the playing that's putting you out of tune. You bend the string, and it's going to stretch. It stretches, and it's going to go flat. That's that. Stretching the strings out when you first put them on may help, but then the strings will play hard and tight. That's not the solution.

I use D'Addario 10's on my electric, and this is what I do to stay in tune. I have an intellitouch tuner. It clips on to the head of the guitar, and tunes through the vibrations in the neck. I can tune in between songs with my volume knob OFF. In other words, I tune as the need arises (and you're right, the G string seems to go out the most), and nobody is the wiser, not the audience, not the singer I work for, not the other guys in the band. It's unrealistic to expect your instrument to stay in tune for any extended length of time. Most guys who think their axes are always in tune can't really tell, you know?

Peace,

Lee
http://leemuller.iuma.com
 
Wait a minute...

What is this "in tune" thing you guys are talking about?



I agree with Stan, I've seen more people struggle with neck adjustments and bridge adjustments when the biggest culprit of tuning trouble turns out to be the connection of the strings.

Turn the G, get the note, "ping", now you're flat...
 
I like the idea of this intellitouch tuner which apparently works off of vibration alone. Is it still effective when you have your drummer hitting his snare and another guitarist or bassist tuning up at the same time? This usually induces vibrations on the instrument and anything attached to it. Are these sounds sensed by the clip on tuner?
 
Howzit pchorman,

Yes, the intellitouch will work even while other the other guys are tuning up, or adjusting snares, or whatever. The other sounds won't affect it. By far, it's the most convenient tuner I've ever used, and I've been using them since the first Conn strobe tuner came out almost 30 years ago($200 - had to sell a $20 gold piece to get it - mom almost killed me).

Intelltouch goes for about 50 bucks and IMHO worth every penny.

Aloha,

Lee
http://leemuller.iuma.com
 
I want to second the thoughts of Stan the Man.Careless winding leaves kinks which "grip then slip".All winds on the post to be in a downward direction to get the best angle breaking off the nut.I keep a number two pencil in my gig bag and re-lube my nut,string trees,and the saddles (important for whammy bar users)with every string change.
Tom
 
Hey Tom,

Just wanted to let you know that I checked out your website and really enjoyed the Dizzy Gillespie tune.

Anyhow, yes, improper winding will affect the tuning, sure. I must admit that I don't pay as much attention to that as I should. I just kind of make sure the string isn't sitting on top of itself on the post (to prevent it from slipping off itself).

Well, thanks for the good info about the number two pencil -good idea, I think I'll slip one into my guitar case right now.

Later,

Lee
http://leemuller.iuma.com
 
Mahalo Lee. Just a couple more questions on the intellitouch and I shall let this thread get back on track:

Does this clip-on tuner work for every note on the fretboard? I see that it's chromatic from the internet ads, so I'm wondering about its utility in checking intonation everywhere. I wonder how that puppy works for less resonant instruments like a solid body electric - is it as effective there? Do you use the PT1 model?

As for stringing methods, I've always allowed somewhere between 1 and 3 turns around the tuning peg and let the windings wrap down toward the headstock. I've found that too few turns promote slippage off the peg (and out of the peg hole or "eye"), and too many turns (like with those who'd rather wind up the excess string than snip it off) make it "spring loaded", which also promotes slippage under tension, although not off the peg.

One important detail: when the string is put through the peg's eye, I bend it sharply backwards opposite the direction of the windings. The one exception is the small E string which has always gone through the eye once, bend sharply backwards, fed through the eye a second time, bent sharply back again and snipped. No problems there.

[Edited by pchorman on 12-18-2000 at 18:59]
 
G string

The G string has been mentioned more than once about not staying in tune, but it may be that it just does not sound in tune. The G string is the major third note of standard barr chords, and the major third is always going to sound sharp. On top of that is the fact that the G string is the loudest note on most guitars with a plain third, wound third eliminates the volume problem although it is stiff. So you have the most offensive string also being the loudest string.
 
Howzit pchorman,

Yes, the intellitouch works on solid body instruments. Our bass player uses it on his 5 string bass. The ukulele teahcer at the studio I work out of uses it on his Uke. You could actually use this tuner on any stringed instrument. It will also register for every note on the fretboard. As far as whether I'm using the PT1 model - I'm looking at it right now and can't see anything on it that says PT1. That model could have come out after I bought mine, I don't know. I've had mine for about a year, and use it on my Ibanez AS200 electric and my Takamine HR5 classical. It works for me. The most important feature for me is the fact that I can leave it clipped on my headstock during the gig, and DON'T HAVE TO UNPLUG my guitar to tune up. I just just turn my volume off, and in seconds, I'm back in tune. Cool.

Stan - interesting point about the G-strng. It does have a tendency to sound sharp when it's the third of the chord, whether it's the major OR minor 3rd. Go figure.

Thanks so much for the tips guys.

Lee
http://leemuller.iuma.com
 
Dead strings stay in tune better. I think everyone has this problem. I just ordered some string guides, they come stock with Fenders. I'm hoping they will act as strain releif. Also try tightening the tuning pegs, the little philip head screw, at the end of the tuning peg.

I have a feeling that the fault may lie with the tuners, but I am not sure, I have Grovers.

GT
 
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