Only the D String Is Off

HRmusic90

21st Century Digital Boy
So I just did a run-of-the-mill string change. Now for some reason only my D string's intonation is out. I have a tune-o-matic bridge with a stop bar. Chiefly I've been adjusting the saddle screw, but even at the extreme it won't come into tune.

It loses pitch as I go up the fretboard. The way I've been checking is that, for all six strings, I'll check the tuning of the open strings (fine). Then I'll check the 12th fret harmonic (fine), then I'll check the 12th fret fretted (all fine except D).

Very strange. Any ideas as to what's happening?
 
Thought someone else might weight in. I'm not familiar with the tune-o-matic. Can you reverse the bridge piece for that string? Did you change string gauges?
 
Is it sharp or flat? What happens on the first couple frets? I'm guessing the problem is at the nut end. The new string isn't sitting properly in the nut slot.
 
Thought someone else might weight in. I'm not familiar with the tune-o-matic. Can you reverse the bridge piece for that string? Did you change string gauges?

I did change gauges, but I changed all of them... I would have thought it would have affected all of them.

Is it sharp or flat? What happens on the first couple frets? I'm guessing the problem is at the nut end. The new string isn't sitting properly in the nut slot.

It gets increasingly flat as I go up the fretboard.
 
I have two guitars with tune-o-matic type bridges which I had set the intonation after going to a lighter gauge string. Not sure, but I think the lighter gauge was more sensitive to fret height and were more prone to sounding off as they got more of a stretch when pushed over a high fret. FWIW both have the bridge pieces that are staggered like my Epi shown below and seems consistent with some images I've seen online. Is yours similar?
 

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The usual problematic string for intonation is the G string. I had to go to a heavier gauge (wound G string) for my Dot, otherwise I could not get it to intonate correctly. But Mark is right - if you have medium-jumbo frets, these can screw up the intonation with lighter strings, too.
 
Chiefly I've been adjusting the saddle screw, but even at the extreme it won't come into tune.

It sounds like either a dead string or you have a kink somewhere (did you adjust the saddle screw after loosening the tension, then re-tune? If not try that way). You shouldn't have to go to the extreme -- that's a sign the problem lies elsewhere. I'd try a new D string from a different pack.

Hope this helps I won't be able to respond anymore until a week or two from now.
 
I have two guitars with tune-o-matic type bridges which I had set the intonation after going to a lighter gauge string. Not sure, but I think the lighter gauge was more sensitive to fret height and were more prone to sounding off as they got more of a stretch when pushed over a high fret. FWIW both have the bridge pieces that are staggered like my Epi shown below and seems consistent with some images I've seen online. Is yours similar?

It is similar.
I'm very hesitant to cut off the D string and replace it with a new one because I just put on a brand new set, but I may try that option too.
 
I'm very hesitant to cut off the D string and replace it with a new one because I just put on a brand new set, but I may try that option too.

Sometimes you get a bad string. Your local guitar shop should sell single strings. You can write the manufacturer and complain and probably get a free set if that's the culprit. Based on what you describe, it sounds like a bad string. Let us know what the issue was when you figure it out.
 
So I went out and bought a couple single D strings. I cut off the original one and put the new one on. And that worked. My intonation is fine now. Wondering what on earth happened I looked more closely at the old one and new one. I noticed the old one looked darker than the new one.

This set that I put on was a custom gauge I made for myself. Musician's Friend has a section of their strings page where you can buy bulk packs of individual strings. They were all Rouge brand. I usually like "Light top, Heavy Bottom" sets, but I often find the top is not light enough and the bottom is a little too heavy. So I mage my own gauge of 9,11,15,28,38,48. I just went back to my order history. I accidentally ordered stainless steel for the D strings, and nickel for the rest... Not sure how I missed that!

But I didn't think material would affect intonation, only timbre.
 
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So I went out and bought a couple single D strings. I cut off the original one and put the new one on. And that worked. My intonation is fine now. Wondering what on earth happened I looked more closely at the old one and new one. I noticed the old one looked darker than the new one.

This set that I put on was a custom gauge I made for myself. Musician's Friend has a section of their strings page where you can buy bulk packs of individual strings. They were all Rouge brand. I usually like "Light top, Heavy Bottom" sets, but I often find the top is not light enough and the bottom is a little too heavy. So I mage my own gauge of 9,11,15,28,38,48. I just went back to my order history. I accidentally ordered stainless steel for the D strings, and nickel for the rest... Not sure how I missed that!

But I didn't think material would affect intonation, only timbre.

Nice. It sounded like a bad string so glad that worked.

My guess is a wound D has more mass and thus would stretch more than an unwound D. Was the unwound very tight to put on or tuning sharp above the 12th fret? Those might be signs it just wasn't stretching enough. If the tuning was all over the place it was probably an issue with it slipping in the tuning peg. The unwound would be more prone to that, I'd imagine, since it has less friction. I didn't even think they made unwound D strings for guitar...I know they make wound G but never heard of unwound D. Are you sure it's a guitar string and not for a different instrument?

Anyway, those are just my thoughts off the top of my head. I'm not expert in this stuff; just started teaching myself some basic setup/luthery stuff last year. To get a definitive answer you should probably ask on a luthier forum.
 
Do a complete setup if you have not already done. If you went to heavier strings you will probably need to adjust your neck relief at very least. Might as well check the action and nut slots too. Intonation comes last. You can get the specs off Gibson's site. I can't imagine why a guitar that would intonate before won't do now. I have heard of people reversing the saddles as a last resort.
 
Nice. It sounded like a bad string so glad that worked.

My guess is a wound D has more mass and thus would stretch more than an unwound D. Was the unwound very tight to put on or tuning sharp above the 12th fret? Those might be signs it just wasn't stretching enough. If the tuning was all over the place it was probably an issue with it slipping in the tuning peg. The unwound would be more prone to that, I'd imagine, since it has less friction. I didn't even think they made unwound D strings for guitar...I know they make wound G but never heard of unwound D. Are you sure it's a guitar string and not for a different instrument?

Anyway, those are just my thoughts off the top of my head. I'm not expert in this stuff; just started teaching myself some basic setup/luthery stuff last year. To get a definitive answer you should probably ask on a luthier forum.

Oh it wasn't wound versus unwound. It seems to be stainless steel versus nickel. The original pack I bought was a pack of 12 wound, stainless steel D strings.
 
All else pretty much the same, a radical change for the worse on the intonation is a bad string 9 times out of ten.

Changing string guage would make them all a wee bit off, but not much.

However, going to a heavier guage often invloves a few things to be right.

1)Truss rod adjust. Heavier strings put more tension on the neck and you might have to tighten it.

2) Redo intonation. Not much but slightly

3) Widening the nut slots. This is not always needed, but some nuts can grip the string too tightly when going up higher in guage. Depending on how the slot is cut it can also make the new string sit higher in the slot.

These are not absolutes, but common things that may need to be addressed .
 
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