A new type of tube guitar amplifier

GONZO-X

Well-known member
i just found out about this thing....

i'd be curious to know if anybody else knows anything about it.....


A NEW TYPE OF TUBE GUITAR AMPLIFIER

(my apologies if this has been covered before)

GAGA-50-- Advantages: All-tube, 5 pounds, 50 watts


lighter and smaller than typical tube amps & lighter than comparably powered transistorized amps

no audio output transformer or its limitations and distortions

freedom to use any number or combination of octal output tubes

widely adjustable output tube distortion vs output volume level

immediate recovery from overdrive; touch-responsive output tube distortion

drives any load and sustains dead shorts or total disconnects at full power

automatic bias and automatic idle / standby of any number or combination of output tubes

lower operating temperature, greatly extended tube lifetimes (expected)

increased reliability and stability, improved amplitude and phase accuracy

more perfect coupling of output tubes to speaker (i.e., no parasitics or saturation)

more tube-like operation of output tubes (i.e., lower current, higher impedance)

triode-like characteristics presented to speakers, even from pentodes

advanced, fully regulated, switching power supplies

no heavy power transformers, magnetics or choke filters

world power ready: plug and play anywhere

powerful, agile, innovative: brings true tone closer

full power over unmatched, wide frequency response

top-quality parts, USA made, high-end audio pedigree, experienced designers






http://www.milbert.com/guitar

http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showpost.php?p=7133571&postcount=42
 
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Hmm. A lot of talk about how awesome its specs are, and not much about how it sounds.

About halfway down their page I found some clips. Listening now through Skullcandy earbuds, I'm not blown away. The stereo micing ("Right channel: Shure SM57 dynamic microphone placed 12 inches off-axis below and in front of Marshall 4x12 with Vintage 30 speakers, in anechoic / dampened room. Left channel: AKG C-3000 studio condenser microphone set 2 meters away in same room.") just makes the whole thing sound odd, and the focus is mostly on cleaner tones.

GAGA-50 offers all-tube "wideband" amplification to unmatched extreme as it more perfectly matches output power tubes to speaker loads. Low frequency response is flat down to near DC and flat up to well above 20kHz

This worries me, TBH. This guy is a high fidelity stereo amplifier developer, and is trying to leverage that into amplifier design. Yet, for the past 60 years of electric guitar, part of the sound of rock guitar HAS been the very innefficiencies in an amplifier circuit. A Marshall plexi is nowhere near full frequency - that's half the point.
 
yep, i have no way to know from the clips, whether i'd really like it or not.

now, if the technology gives me the ultra deep lows i like, without the mud or midrange, and the high end can easily be sweetened....

if the distortion levels are much more variable than the clips show...

if it takes pedals well.....

i can see how this COULD blow away all other tube designs.
everything i HATE HATE HATE about tube amps, this amp does away with. (i'm a tube amp snob i guess, i've played tube amps of every make and model since 1975)


but, the proof is in the pudding, as they say.
i gotta not only hear one, but feel the way it translates what i do, thru the speaker.

that is golden.
 
Hmmm. Interesting, a wideband guitar amp.

I think the clean samples sound OK but not particularly full. The overdriven samples are pretty gutless considering they're using a 4X12 cab.

Still, though, it's not a bad sound and will probably develop a cult following.
 
I'll add that there are probably countless examples of recording sessions where guitarists plugged directly into a board to obtain whatever sound that would produce, so there's nothing unique about the wideband aspect of it.

I've run a guitar direct into a PA board (no guitar amp at all) just for shits and gigges, and it sounded pretty cool. But different.
 
And further......:D

There is absolutely no reason that the holy grail of amplified guitar sound should be based on transformer-coupled vaccuum tube designs. It's what we're used to, and what has been shown to work. So far.

That's what puzzles me about modelers and Guitar Rig setups.....if you can model any kind of amplified sound, why not break some ground? :confused:
 
And further......:D

There is absolutely no reason that the holy grail of amplified guitar sound should be based on transformer-coupled vaccuum tube designs. It's what we're used to, and what has been shown to work. So far.

That's what puzzles me about modelers and Guitar Rig setups.....if you can model any kind of amplified sound, why not break some ground? :confused:

...except, because that's what every single rock guitar record we grew up on and were influenced by and were made to fall in love with the guitar through was recorded by a guitar amplified in this manner, so it's part of the "sound" of rock guitar. Ever played a guitar plugged straight into a keyboard amp?

The other weird thing about this is they're spending all this time bragging about how full-frequency their amp is and how that's sort of important, and then running it through a 4x12 guitar cab. Any fidelity gains would immediately be lost there.

I'll be interested to hear and play one of these, but my gut reaction is this is an amp based on a premise that I find kind of questionable, and marketed based on a very long (and admittedly impressive) spec list, but not based on what it can actually do.

Oh, and spot on about modelers - the day I get interested in modeling is the day they start trying to do things you can't do with conventional vacuum tubes.
 
the technology is definitely cutting edge.



Technology

White Papers

ZOTL Technology vs Audio Output Transformers

This paper demonstrates the electrical performance of an amplifier using the ZOTL technology versus the identical amplifier using a high-quality audio output transformer and presents these differences using oscillographs.

Electronic Devices and the Amplification Process

This paper shows how a curve tracer can be used to explore the attributes of the ZOTL technology and contrast it to the shortcomings of the audio output transformer. Also shown is how this tool can be used to optimally design an amplifier.

Patents

5,612,646 Output Transformerless Amplifier Impedance Matching Apparatus

This patent teaches the principles behind the Berning ZOTL technology that can properly match the impedance of vacuum tubes to the impedance of speakers without using audio output transformers. The impedance conversion is done with dc-dc switching converters operating at fixed frequencies well above audio frequencies. The actual voltage and current impedance transformations are done via special high-frequency transformers. This is an RF carrier system that eliminates the frequency-dependent distortions present in audio transformers, and can enable the amplifier to have a wider frequency response and be dc coupled.

4,163,198 Audio Amplifier

This patent details a hybrid tube-FET amplification stage that forms the basis of the Berning TF-10 preamplifier. An important advantage of this amplification stage is the elimination of the parasitic feedback capacitance and thus providing a stage with improved transient response.

3,995,226 Audio Amplifier

This patent describes the screen drive philosophy that has become an important part of many of the Berning power amplifier designs to the present day. The screen drive allows tubes to be operated at much higher efficiencies, much higher power output, and at greatly enhanced reliability. Whereas the patent shows transistors driving tubes, the same principles apply to presently implemented versions of tubes driving tubes. This is also known as the "enhancement" amplifier.
 
the technology is definitely cutting edge.


So are Line6, noiseless single coils, Gibson's Robot Guitar, graphite necks, and a lot of other things guitar players hate. It seems like a fantastic hifi amp, with the output tube distortion feature added on. I have no idea if that will translate to good tone.
 
heheh

i LOVE noiseless single coils....
i use bill lawrence L280's, and get the best single coil sound i've ever gotten to date.


often times, it's not the tools...
 
Ever played a guitar plugged straight into a keyboard amp?
Yep! Like plugging straight into a board. Different.

The other weird thing about this is they're spending all this time bragging about how full-frequency their amp is and how that's sort of important, and then running it through a 4x12 guitar cab. Any fidelity gains would immediately be lost there.
For sure, and if you're going to hook it up to a full range speaker, then that becomes impractical for any number of reasons and would probably sound almost, but not completely, unlike a guitar amplifier. :D

my gut reaction is this is an amp based on a premise that I find kind of questionable, and marketed based on a very long (and admittedly impressive) spec list, but not based on what it can actually do.
Agreed.
 
That's an awfully odd thing to say in defense of a brand new high tech guitar amp....

it was sort of a reply to what ermghoti said...about how some guitar players 'hate' certain improvements... and how i found one of them in particular he talked about, to be a wonderful thing, and i actually love it.


i was referring to the fact that often times, certain players have the need to blame their amps/guitars for why they aren't sounding so good.

you know, you can't blame the tools for a crappy job, etc, ad naseum....
 
and as far as "defense"......?
that doesn't make any sense at all..

why do i care whether this amp sells or not?
i just thought it was cool that there's a new technology (FINALLY) on the horizon, and threw it out here to discuss.

i aint no salesman!!
LOL

i don't have a stake in this....

i'm a tube amp user, sitting on the sidelines, watching all this 'new' stuff go by, while i happily crank out tune after tune after tune with a 28 year old tube amp!!

heheh
 
For sure, and if you're going to hook it up to a full range speaker, then that becomes impractical for any number of reasons and would probably sound almost, but not completely, unlike a guitar amplifier. :D

Win. :D I need to pick that back up, haha.

At this point, we're just a bunch of guys passing judgement on something we've had no experience with on the internet, and we all know how well THAT generally goes. :p But, that said, I'm not really expecting to be blown away if I ever get to play one of these. It's got a ton of cool specs, but the basic premise just doesn't make sense to me.

And furthermore, doesn't a typical humbucker's frequency response drop off pretty sharply about 7khz, and maybe around 9 for a singlecoil? If you're worried about full frequency amplification, I think fixing one part of the signal chain isn't really going to get you anywhere.

EDIT - though, every time I move my Mesa head, I'll probably be thinking about how appealing a 5lb amp is from now on. :p
 
but the basic premise just doesn't make sense to me.

wow, it'd have to hit you over the head with itself, wouldn't it?!
LOL


automatic bias

lighter and smaller

no audio output transformer

Any number or combination of octal output tubes

Allows full output tube distortion at any volume level

immediate recovery from overdrive; touch-responsive output tube distortion

drives any load

greatly extended tube lifetimes

world power ready




crap, i wished my boogie could do ANY of these things!!!
:D
 
And furthermore, doesn't a typical humbucker's frequency response drop off pretty sharply about 7khz, and maybe around 9 for a singlecoil? If you're worried about full frequency amplification, I think fixing one part of the signal chain isn't really going to get you anywhere.
On the other end, the lowest note you'll play in standard tuning is on a six-string is 83Hz, with low E on a standard 4-string bass being half that.
 
wow, it'd have to hit you over the head with itself, wouldn't it?!
LOL


automatic bias

lighter and smaller

no audio output transformer

Any number or combination of octal output tubes

Allows full output tube distortion at any volume level

immediate recovery from overdrive; touch-responsive output tube distortion

drives any load

greatly extended tube lifetimes

world power ready




crap, i wished my boogie could do ANY of these things!!!
:D

Stick a MOSFET on the output of a 12AX7 and you'll accomplish most of that. Oh yes, regulate the tube supplies (how is he possibly the first person to do that? I think not, even if a Fender Champ doesn't).

Oh, but hybrid amps sound bad? I don't see how modulating a bunch of MOSFETs with a high-frequency carrier and an audio signal is materially different in terms of tone, other than the task of stripping out intermodulation distortion from the high-frequency tone. But that's just me. You want a hybrid amp, skip the strange switching power supply. An unloaded power tube without an output transformer won't yield the same tone. I mean heck, people want tube rectifiers specifically because they sag. Hi-fi they ain't.

I go the other way, using high-voltage MOSFETs into output transformers. The big cost in a tube amp is the power transformer more than the output transformer. I mean both are crazy expensive, but the output trafo less so.
 
On the other end, the lowest note you'll play in standard tuning is on a six-string is 83Hz, with low E on a standard 4-string bass being half that.


that's only the fundamental.
 
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