My Triple Rec just ain't cutting it...

I've owned a Mesa Triple Rec for around a year, and while at first it seemed the cat's ass compared to anything else I'd played, I'm now beginning to fully realize it's limitations and it's pissing me off! At first, the high-gain/scooped mids/smooth distortion seems like the "tone of the Gods", but now that I'm actually playing some real music with real dynamics (and lots of solos!), I find it's tone a bit... lacking. It's got no balls! I recently re-tubed it, which it desperately needed, but that still hasn't given me the extreme distorted mega huge screaming raging explosion tone I'm looking for. It's more of a nu-metallish rhythm-guitar mediocre scooped tone, which I largely attribute to it's terrible "Mid" knob. It's like it's just boosting the boomy shit frequencies that most of us cut out of a mix right away. There aren't any medium-high mids at all!

That said, what should I be looking at to get that mega-huge ballsy angry tone? Somewhere between Bloodbath and Early-to-Mid Metallica? Something like Opeth!!! I play a brand of metal somewhere between 80's Metallica, Opeth, Between the Buried and Me, and At the Gates, with an extremely fair helping of sweet solos!


*Edit: to clarify, I've been playing guitar for around 7 years, and have been touring for the last two, so I'm not a n00b playing-wise. Tone-wise, I'm in the crowd of, "I don't know, but I know what I like!". I'm just starting to get into playing with things like my amp/pickups/strings/etc. more than a little, and I want to go the right direction right away vs. trying 20 different amps just to figure out my pickups were the problem the whole time or something!
 
VHT, Bogner, Soldano, ENGL, Egnater. Just a few to try out and see what you think.

Also, you might want to check out if you can find a 2 channel model of the mesa Dual Rec. I forget if there was ever a 2 channel Triple Rec, but the 2 channel models are generally considered superior.
 
Don't get rid of it yet!
I have a dual rectifier and I love it. But I never ever use the "modern" setting.
It really has no mids only boomy bass and harsh treb.
the "vintage voice" has a really heavy sound with a lot of body.
I use EL34 on power tubes, i didnt fall in love with mine until the EL34.
Also, i never push the gain more than 1 or 2 o'clock, it tends to sound sloppy, when i need more gain i use an OD(MXR ZW) and noise gate(BOSS ns-2). And celestion vintage 30.
I dont know if this helps in a triple rec.
 
What exactly is different with your sound now than before. Are you just not liking the tone, or your guitar isn't cutting thru? There are lots of things it could be. If you like the tone when you play by yourself, but doesn't work in the band setting, EQ could be the problem. What speakers are you using? Are you using active or passive pickups? Might want to try adjusting the pick up height to get rid of some of the muddiness. Just a note about EQ, what ever you use at lower volumes won't necessarily work at higer volumes. Usually you will need different setting for the two, to compenstate for the speaker distortion. I'm just throwing around some ideas. I would'nt ditch the Triple Rec just yet, the problems you're haveing can happen with any speaker/amp combination, usually it's just a matter of tweaking and knowing how to compensate for the environment you're playing in.
 
Ostia Man said:
Don't get rid of it yet!
I have a dual rectifier and I love it. But I never ever use the "modern" setting.
It really has no mids only boomy bass and harsh treb.
the "vintage voice" has a really heavy sound with a lot of body.
I use EL34 on power tubes, i didnt fall in love with mine until the EL34.
Also, i never push the gain more than 1 or 2 o'clock, it tends to sound sloppy, when i need more gain i use an OD(MXR ZW) and noise gate(BOSS ns-2). And celestion vintage 30.
I dont know if this helps in a triple rec.


There's one solution to all the Mesa problems. Voodoo amps. Get the fucker modded and you'll be able to dime the gain on the modern channel and it sounds sweet. They also change the eq circuits and make them very useable. I can't believe I waited so long to do it.
 
You mentioned a mix? Play with the tracks (by muting them one by one) until you find out exactly what's stepping on your sound -- the toms? vocals? another guitar player? If you can use an eq on the mix to fill in the gap, then take the same approach with your guitar signal chain (and if there are two guitar players, this may need to be a "collaborative" process). I gathered that the amp sounds OK by itself, but gets lost in the mix -- if it sounds bad by itself, then yeah, maybe look at another amp.
 
I owned a dual rec and thought it was a kick ass amp for about a month. I ended up using an eq in the efx loop but it was still lacking something. I think your best bet would be to talk to some local amp techs, music store owners, and anyone else that's in to guitars and amps. Finding the right amp ain't easy and it's probably going to take some effort.
 
you gotta crank it.

what kinda volumes are you playing it at? playing at low volumes will not wield the sounds you hear on records. you only get that by cranking a tube amp to the point where you shouldnt be standing near it without protection or a power soak.

Adam
 
I'll try to reply to all of these at once!

VHT, Bogner, Soldano, ENGL, Egnater I've definitely wanted to check a couple of these out but I haven't been able to find anybody that carries basically any of them in town :/

tubescreamer This I've also been thinking about, but I thought they were more for getting a more modern distortion out of a not-so-modern-sounding amp (like a Laney?) I could obviously be way off, as I'm no tone-head (yet!)

EL34's When I recently re-tubed, I was under the impression these were better for bluesy tones. Since then, however, I've learned they're more expressive/ballsy, but with no lack of distortion. Perhaps I'll have to try these out, although I've got a hell of a long time on my 6L6's before they'd even be considered used practically..

Voodoo amps I've heard good things, but an extra $400-600 on top of what I've already spent seems kinda lame. It might be what's ultimately necessary, but I feel like I'm just ready for something with a more ballsy midrange and distortion.

You mentioned a mix... The "mix" reference was used to try to describe what frequencies the "mid" knob actually adjusted. It doesn't adjust "mids", so much as "mud". I don't want a damned mud control, I want a mid control! :p

what kinda volumes are you playing it at? anything from practice amp settings to 10:30-11:00 on the channel volume knob. This may actually be my problem, as I don't fully understand why there are three knobs that control the volume. Each channel has it's own, and I'm not sure whether this controls the power tubes' or preamp tubes' volumes. (Hell I'm not even sure what the 6L6's vs. the three "big" tubes do!) Then there's the "Output" knob which, to my knowledge, is a variable attenuator with "0" being in the middle. This I could also be way off-base on, but judging by the sounds I'm getting it seems correct. I'd really like to know more about this one... Thirdly, there's the knob on the back of the head that controls the volume again. It is labeled as such that one would assume it's just adjusting the volume to the effects loop, but with the effects loop off and nothing plugged into it, the knob still adjusts the volume. I don't know WTF these knobs all *really* do and like I said, it may be the exact cause of my problems! I'm not the original owner, and I couldn't find a good description in the online manual.
 
marshall409 said:
what kinda volumes are you playing it at? playing at low volumes will not wield the sounds you hear on records. you only get that by cranking a tube amp to the point where you shouldnt be standing near it without protection or a power soak.

Adam


Not so with mine any more. It sounds much better at lower volumes since I had voodoo amps do their magic on it. In a couple of months, I'm going to finish it off with a new output transformer.
 
HangDawg said:
Not so with mine any more. It sounds much better at lower volumes since I had voodoo amps do their magic on it. In a couple of months, I'm going to finish it off with a new output transformer.

OK! we get it! voodoo mods kick ass! lol just kidding. sounds like you really got your moneys worth.

Steve:

ya im looking at a pic of the front panel and it is kinda confusing. each channel has a knob called "Master" and then the amp has a knob beside the solo boost knob that says output. to me i think the output knob would be the master volume.

nothing on the back will affect thet overall volume in a proper way. theres a slave out, for using an additional power amp, and the fx loop volume which should be left alone if youre not using a loop.

i dont see a builit in attenuator on the back...maybe thats what the output knob is. anyone care to clear this up? i'm too lazy to download the manual.

Adam
 
marshall409 said:
Steve:

ya im looking at a pic of the front panel and it is kinda confusing. ... i'm too lazy to download the manual.

Adam

Not being one who upgrades/changes setup on a whim, I just got done printing the 40+ page manual and have been reading it. I'm still not 100% clear on everything, and it doesn't really explain what the "Output" know PHYSICALLY does, just stuff like "it adjusts the overall output of the amp". Well duh. Does it do this by pushing the output tubes? Or is that what the "master" is on the individual channels, which would make the Output knob an attenuator/shitty booster or something. I really don't know 8|
 
Thats why I play a '65 bassman and an old 100watt super lead. One volume knob per channel. GREAT tone by itself. If I want distortion, well thats what pedals are for! I've always hated the "boogie" sound. BUT, it is a sound that is instantly recognizable... for what its worth.
 
rory said:
Thats why I play a '65 bassman and an old 100watt super lead. One volume knob per channel. GREAT tone by itself. If I want distortion, well thats what pedals are for! I've always hated the "boogie" sound. BUT, it is a sound that is instantly recognizable... for what its worth.

I've heard of a couple different people using bassman's (Bassmen? hah) for their cleans and then either a marshall or 5150 or something else just for distortion, but I'd really like to keep it simple. Eventually, a rack-mounted setup would be phenomenal but for now a great sounding head would be the best option cash-wise.

Honestly, looking through this manual, I think I've really been sticking my head in the sand with this whole tone thing. There are basically 8 different channels in this head, or at least 8 different voicings, with their own gain stages and everything. Perhaps I should mess with it a little more... any suggested non-mushy settings?
 
steve.h said:
I've heard of a couple different people using bassman's (Bassmen? hah) for their cleans and then either a marshall or 5150 or something else just for distortion, but I'd really like to keep it simple. Eventually, a rack-mounted setup would be phenomenal but for now a great sounding head would be the best option cash-wise.

Honestly, looking through this manual, I think I've really been sticking my head in the sand with this whole tone thing. There are basically 8 different channels in this head, or at least 8 different voicings, with their own gain stages and everything. Perhaps I should mess with it a little more... any suggested non-mushy settings?


They bottom end will probably be sort of mushy/loose... It helps to keep the rectifier set to diode. It took me a long time to really figure mine out. Lots of options.

So what do you want it to sound like. Still not really sure what you are after.
 
I'm not really sure what I'm after either I guess, I just know it's not the sound I've become accustomed to!

An update: I went to my practice space and futzed with the amp a little bit, after reading the manual in entirety. From what it told me, the sound I was going for was more likely to come from the Orange channel set to "Vintage", vs. the Red channel set to "Modern". I also figured out that the "Output" knob was, in fact, a 'real' volume knob, which turned out to be the main source of all of my problems! I had been told by the previous owner that the Output knob should be set to 12:00 at the most, as any higher would be overloading the circuits or something. Turns out he was full of shit! Much of the sweet manly crunchy tone I was going for was hidden at about 2:00-3:00! With this revelation in mind, I tried switching to the Vintage setting, which always seemed too quiet and wimpy with the Output knob at 12, but punched up to 2:30, the Vintage turned out to be much, much closer to my desired tone than the Red Modern channel was giving out. The midrange is back, and so is the tone! And the VOLUME holy crap.

Anyway, tone-wise I'm happier, but I'm still debating getting a simple eq in my effects loop, maybe something as simple as a 7-band. I definitely don't need something ridiculous like a 31-band: I'm not that picky, and I've found too much EQ'ing makes your tone go to shit pretty quick.

I'm definitely still open to other options though, as I haven't had more than a half-hour or so to get used to the sound: it might just be the "different is better" syndrome. I'll keep everyone updated.

Thanks for everyone's advice so far!
 
steve.h said:
I'm not really sure what I'm after either I guess, I just know it's not the sound I've become accustomed to!

An update: I went to my practice space and futzed with the amp a little bit, after reading the manual in entirety. From what it told me, the sound I was going for was more likely to come from the Orange channel set to "Vintage", vs. the Red channel set to "Modern". I also figured out that the "Output" knob was, in fact, a 'real' volume knob, which turned out to be the main source of all of my problems! I had been told by the previous owner that the Output knob should be set to 12:00 at the most, as any higher would be overloading the circuits or something. Turns out he was full of shit! Much of the sweet manly crunchy tone I was going for was hidden at about 2:00-3:00! With this revelation in mind, I tried switching to the Vintage setting, which always seemed too quiet and wimpy with the Output knob at 12, but punched up to 2:30, the Vintage turned out to be much, much closer to my desired tone than the Red Modern channel was giving out. The midrange is back, and so is the tone! And the VOLUME holy crap.

Anyway, tone-wise I'm happier, but I'm still debating getting a simple eq in my effects loop, maybe something as simple as a 7-band. I definitely don't need something ridiculous like a 31-band: I'm not that picky, and I've found too much EQ'ing makes your tone go to shit pretty quick.

I'm definitely still open to other options though, as I haven't had more than a half-hour or so to get used to the sound: it might just be the "different is better" syndrome. I'll keep everyone updated.

Thanks for everyone's advice so far!

Cool. Glad to hear its working. Just curious, does it have the tube/diode switch for the rectifier section?
 
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