Interesting argument for the difference between cheap & non-cheap guitars...

Steve Henningsgard

Steve Henningsgard

New member
I'm not sure if this is an isolated incident, but I've found that when I play my PRS and my 750xl Charvelle through a distorted amp (in this case, a Framus Dragon and a Rivera Knucklehead were used), the individual notes in chords, and the high strings in general were significantly clearer than with either of my Schecter guitars. While the pickups are most certainly different, I can't help but think that the quality of the guitars themselves must be related.

I've always wanted to hear a really solid argument for why it's worth it to spend more than $400 or so on a guitar, and this is one of the better & most convincing examples I've personally seen (err.. heard).

What other arguments for/against low/medium-range guitars vs. more expensive/nice guitars do y'all have?
 
i can't help but disagree :)

i bought my Brownsville GG1 guitar for roughly $179. It's a variation on the les paul theme - mahogany neck/body with maple cap, set neck. After I installed my GFS Dream 180 pickups - even with a lot of distortion I can fret full major and even minor chords (all 6 strings) and I get very clear "stringy" sound, although it's still "crunchy".

It's all about pickups. I'm not advocating garbage plywood guitars or low-end no-name woods, but a cheap guitar can often be a decent slab of wood and with right pickups will hang with so called expensive guitars, definitely with many of them.

I would say that fretwork and attention to detail are more where it's at. Although the few instruments I've bought from Rondo had fantastic fretboards. As does my Brownsville (I also have an acoustic Brownsville).

:rolleyes:
 
There is a rule I've come to accept over the years, and don't forget I love ALL guitars.;)

First it is a spectrum. The lower the price the lower the production costs. You have to play through a heap of low end guitars to find a keeper that's right for you. As you go up through the price bracket you have to search as hard for the junker. Sure the the keepers and junkers exist at both ends of the spectrum and there are always exceptions.

Just a thought.
 
Perhaps a double blind test with an American PRS and similarly styled import would be a more appropriate test. Can't speak for the Charvelle (Charvel?), but PRS are known for having a little bit more spank in the highs than your traditional dual humbucker guitar which people often translate to more definition.
 
I'm not a tone freak... I love my PRS because it looks gorgeous and is a work of art... same reason I drive an Alfa Romeo...

I'm so shallow sometimes...:D
 
Armistice said:
I'm not a tone freak... I love my PRS because it looks gorgeous and is a work of art... same reason I drive an Alfa Romeo...

I'm so shallow sometimes...:D
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That's not shallow. When something is a work of art, it can inspire you. If it's a guitar, you'll likely play with more passion just because you enjoy holding it! If it's a car, you'll likely drive with more passion just because its so much fun!

(I'm the same way...)
 
WhiteStrat said:
That's not shallow. When something is a work of art, it can inspire you. If it's a guitar, you'll likely play with more passion just because you enjoy holding it! If it's a car, you'll likely drive with more passion just because its so much fun!

(I'm the same way...)
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I know all about this! I own a 1994 Camaro that I've been working on and a 2005 Subaru Impreza STi. They're a lot of fun, and my Camaro is my baby.

When it comes to guitars, I love playing my Epiphone acoustic. I think it's a gorgeous guitar, and it's made even more special because my wife got it for me. Despite the high "suck level" of my playing, I still enjoy the acoustic just as much as trying to shred on one of my other guitars.
 
RatedZ said:
I know all about this! I own a 1994 Camaro that I've been working on and a 2005 Subaru Impreza STi. They're a lot of fun, and my Camaro is my baby.

When it comes to guitars, I love playing my Epiphone acoustic. I think it's a gorgeous guitar, and it's made even more special because my wife got it for me. Despite the high "suck level" of my playing, I still enjoy the acoustic just as much as trying to shred on one of my other guitars.
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I've got an Epiphone electric (a pretty cheap guitar) that's worth a mint to me because my son gave it to me for Christmas. He thought my "White Strat" persona was too Mr. Nice Guy, so he got me black Les Paul copy to give me a dose of Bad Boy rock and roll! I like so so much I completely overhauled it with all black hardware too--down to every screw! Just like that one from your wife, it's extra special!
 
WhiteStrat said:
I've got an Epiphone electric (a pretty cheap guitar) that's worth a mint to me because my son gave it to me for Christmas. He thought my "White Strat" persona was too Mr. Nice Guy, so he got me black Les Paul copy to give me a dose of Bad Boy rock and roll! I like so so much I completely overhauled it with all black hardware too--down to every screw! Just like that one from your wife, it's extra special!
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That's totally cool! You posted to one of my posts in another thread, and I mentioned I just got back into playing. I've been having some "maintenance" on my guitars done.

Epiphone Shadow Six Acoustic- Strings replaced (Call me "stupid," but I was clueless as to how to change the strings on this thing!)

BC Rich Mockingbird NJ- It was in terrible shape. The strings buzzed, it had dead frets, and was just a mess. I had to get the knot and bridge modified so it would play. Now, it plays great!

Fender Telecaster Plus (USA)- I went ahead and swapped the strings on this one. Talk about rust! :eek:

Ibanez EX180- This used to be my ex-girlfriend's brother's guitar, but somewhere along the way I sort of inherited it. It's physically in great shape, but the electronics are trashed. I have it sitting at the shop now being looked at and awaiting an estimate to see if it's worth doing anything with.

I've just gone all-out since right before Xmas with starting to play again and get my instruments all back in top shape. I've also been a bit inspired to get them fixed because I got my wife a real nice Casio WP-3800 (or something like that...) keyboard for Xmas, and it has a ton of effects. I've been working on that to try to record some drum tracks to play along with.

Until very recently, my main (and really only...) hobby has been automobile-related. Now, I'm just finding that messing around with different instruments is quite entertaining and just really relaxing. I'm really enjoying it. While it can be frustrating at times, so can spending $7800 on a brand new engine, only to have the car not start 4 months later.
 
Those 400 hundred dollar Deans have never given me grief.

Cheaper ones were all crap, from setup to sound.

More expensive Gibson LP Baritone, same shit as the cheaper ones!:mad:
-The bridge, cuts strings all the time, AND is falling apart!.. All the intonation screws are falling off, and the bits fall to oblivion as the string breakes. Nothing like this on any other guitar. Need to change the bridge as soon as I find a fitting roller. The nut, is friggin plastic... changing that.
The pickups aren't too bad, but gonna try some BKP pickups there too.
It's a Massive chunk of wood, there is tone there, but it could have been a better construction.
I'm getting a Fender baritone Special next, it'll be nice to see how it compares.
 
WhiteStrat said:
I've got an Epiphone electric (a pretty cheap guitar) that's worth a mint to me because my son gave it to me for Christmas. He thought my "White Strat" persona was too Mr. Nice Guy, so he got me black Les Paul copy to give me a dose of Bad Boy rock and roll! I like so so much I completely overhauled it with all black hardware too--down to every screw! Just like that one from your wife, it's extra special!
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Epiphone is a soft spot to me now too, since I got my new baby before Xmas. In my opinion, it sounds better than my ESP vintage Strat which is worth 3 times as much. Neck is wonderful, action couldn't be better and tone is beautifully warm with endless crying sustain. I took it to my luthier when I got it and he said it didn't need anything adjusted, it was already perfect.

Now that I'm turning 50 this year, I hope to get a studio just like yours for my birthday, so I can fit it with the 2 Zakk Wylde EMGs I got off ebay. And then I'll take that beautiful black sweetheart to bed with me just like I do with her sister......:D
 
any blind tests should be done with the same or at least "same class" pickups, otherwise you'd be just comparing pickups, not very fair.

epiphone, as well as Rondo music's brands offer many VERY good guitars (even if you have to go through several sometimes, as muttley said), but some of those pickups are junk (and you can tell without being "blinded").

actually sometimes even a cheap guitar comes with a great pickup, whether by accident or design - i was working on a friend's Squier Cyclone and the neck single coil was SO fendery! The bridge humbucker - average (average stocker, which I would upgrade on any of my guitars). and that's despite my bias that all stock pickups are trash, unless they have a specific model, confirmed to be a good pickup.
 
My two mains are a Fender Deluxe Roadhouse and a Squier Bullet. The Roadhouse feels just a tad heavier but it's more natural, if that makes sense. The action is very very smooth in comparison. I got the Squier when I was 14. My Pops bought it in trade for me cutting my hair (oh how he hated me with long hair lol) but I wouldn't trade it for your life. :D It too feels very comfortable, but I grew up with that guitar. The differences are there, but both are very very usable.
 
My lifetime guitar count is now 30+, and I've owned treasures and trash. Sometimes the trash is just what I need for a certain feel, but I have slowly weeded out everything in the electric line except Gibson guitars and Fender basses.

1. Robust design: one of the cooler sounding electrics I had was a Ventura Country Gent copy, with peculiar single-coil pickups in humbucker shells. Playing out of open C, it sounded like a Hammond B3.

BUT it wouldn't stay in tune, despite a lot of effort on my part (tuneamatic bridge, Gotoh tuners); a number of people picked it up and loved it, but it always came down to problems with the tuning. Bye bye.

In comparison, my Gibsons (LP, 335, SG) are solid, stay in tune, and sound great. If I need to get a different sound, I have a Line 6 Floor Pod Plus and some pedals. Equally, my Fender Precisions (Classic '51, Classic '50s, fretless) are reliable and well made.

2. Great sounds: the Gibsons have very different sonic signatures from each other, and I can get just about anything I want from one or the other of them. And I ended up with the Precisions after owning many other basses (Carvin, Jazz bass, etc) because they sound -- and record -- better than the others. I have recorded on practically every axe I've had, and trust me: my old, funky instruments were mostly useful for novelty value.

3. Good value: after my in-laws died within a couple of years of each other, my wife and I were confronted with the task of getting rid of two lifetimes' accumulation of STUFF. It wasn't junk, there was just so much of it...some went to auction, some went to family, some went to Goodwill or other charities. I decided then to get rid of anything my kids couldn't sell for a decent price. Of the 16 instruments I had then, I still have 4. When I go, my children will realize something from the sale of the rest.

I'm not a snob: I have happily played -- and gigged with -- Squiers, Epiphones, Venturas, Globals (Montgomery Ward brand) and whatnot. But, cost not being the factor it was when I was younger, I prefer to play better instruments, just as I prefer a Toyota to a Yugo.
 
One argument in favor of the cheaper guitars is that they lend themselves to experimentation and modification with less money at risk.
 
Zaphod B said:
One argument in favor of the cheaper guitars is that they lend themselves to experimentation and modification with less money at risk.
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That's true: this summer I traded for an Epiphone Sheraton II. I had a lot of fun completely rewiring it with Seymour Duncans (that was a lot of entertainment, what with finding mini-pots that would fit through the narrow f-holes, following bad advice and going back to square one, and actually ending up with an attractive instrument) but in the end, it was not as good a guitar as the 335 I ended up finding for a good price. The Epi is now somebody else's darlin'.

Both were well made, to one of my favorite designs, but even after a month or so of work, and a couple of hundred bucks invested, the Epi still didn't sound as good at the 335 does stock.

I may find another cutie with those big brown eyes looking up me from the case, but the truth is, I modify more for the sake of modifying than with any expectation of actually getting a superior guitar out it...and I speak as someone who has reshaped necks on budget basses, replaced plywood tops with bearclaw spruce, and gotten to where I could probably solder in a new set of pickups with my eyes closed; and I have done much damage to my wallet thereby. It's been fun, but it's time to give it up.
 
lpdeluxe said:
...BUT it wouldn't stay in tune, despite a lot of effort on my part (tuneamatic bridge, Gotoh tuners); a number of people picked it up and loved it, but it always came down to problems with the tuning. Bye bye...
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that can happen, but "bye bye" is rather rash, no? a new slip-stone or graphite (or bone or whatever) nut costs about $40 or $50 - or even filing out the grooves on the stock nut.

I put a bigsby on a guitar and there were tuning issues despite a roller bridge and locking tuners - new slip stone nut solved it - stays in tune forever.

On the other hand, my archtop didn't need a new nut - not tuning issues even with the bigsby (but I did put a rocking bar bridge on it). I don't know if yours had a vibrato, many times even a gretsch guitar with bigsby comes with a tune-o-matic bridge (ok, "adjustomatic") and it really shouldn't.

But even without a vibrato, the nut is often the culprit of tuning stability issues.
 
Gear_Junky said:
that can happen, but "bye bye" is rather rash, no? a new slip-stone or graphite (or bone or whatever) nut costs about $40 or $50 - or even filing out the grooves on the stock nut.

I put a bigsby on a guitar and there were tuning issues despite a roller bridge and locking tuners - new slip stone nut solved it - stays in tune forever.

On the other hand, my archtop didn't need a new nut - not tuning issues even with the bigsby (but I did put a rocking bar bridge on it). I don't know if yours had a vibrato, many times even a gretsch guitar with bigsby comes with a tune-o-matic bridge (ok, "adjustomatic") and it really shouldn't.

But even without a vibrato, the nut is often the culprit of tuning stability issues.
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Good points, and I hear ya, Whitestrat, but I've got to move on. I feel like I need to get away from acquisitiveness and concentrate on those instruments that really light my fire.

PLUS: there's a whole 'nuther issue about this: I firmly believe that some instruments will allow us to play better than other instruments. For me, Fender basses bring something out that doesn't seem to be there with, say, a Carvin or a G&L, and Gibson guitars affect me the same way.

Back to Gear_Junky: I was a long-term owner/player of a Bigsby-equipped Country Gent, and I never had tuning problems. In fact, I'd love to find a cherry red 355 with a Bigsby (but then, that would mean the 335 would have to go).

With me, there are more issues than whether it's fun to modify guitars, or the question, posed by one's significant other, "how many of those things do you NEED, anyhow?" (the answer, for me, currently, is "about 10"). It's about not surrounding myself with stuff that another person could profitably be using for his or her enjoyment, and about my not feeling like the guitars own me. I do play 'em, ya know, and, if I DON'T play 'em, they go to someone who will.
 
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