ID Help - Vintage Japanese 12-string electric

Sky Blue Lou

Well-known member
Strange beastie this. Picked up at a yard sale some years ago by a guy that works for me. He was told it was 60's vintage. Could be. No maker mark whatsoever anywhere. I don't want to pull the pups or bridge just yet. I was hoping someone here would recognize it.

Five piece neck. Looks like five ply top. Construction is pretty good and it's pretty clean for its alleged age. Pups work. The only Hofner body 12 string copies I've found in Google images have a scroll type headstock. This headstock design looks vaguely familiar but I can't place it.

Thanks for looking and your thoughts.
 

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As I was posting the photos my son asked me if I had searched Google images. I said, "Yeah. I typed in Japanese violin body 12 string, just like this..." Bam, there it was.

So anyway I guess the question now becomes what sort of value does something like this have? I've heard there is a bit of a market for earlier Jap stuff and I may keep the thing and don't want to cheat the guy. What would be a fair price?
 
Could be Kawia made or Teisco or later Conrad they all came out of the same factory and were branded differently. Hard to say without a better look. I've seen a few over the years. Lots of them made it to the UK.
 
As I was posting the photos my son asked me if I had searched Google images. I said, "Yeah. I typed in Japanese violin body 12 string, just like this..." Bam, there it was.

So anyway I guess the question now becomes what sort of value does something like this have? I've heard there is a bit of a market for earlier Jap stuff and I may keep the thing and don't want to cheat the guy. What would be a fair price?

They don't fetch a great deal unless some one really wants one. Your best bet is to get some famous dude in a breaking band to play one in his video of the their new single release. The price will rocket..:thumbs up:
 
Yeah, Mutt. I followed the lead and found a thread on Harmony Central where a guy said Kawai probably marketed by Teisco. One bought the other at some point, yeah? Any value on this sort of piece? I wonder if there is a forum out there for this stuff. Hmmm....
 
They don't fetch a great deal unless some one really wants one. Your best bet is to get some famous dude in a breaking band to play one in his video of the their new single release. The price will rocket..:thumbs up:
Yeah, ha ha. Great idea mate...if I only knew one of those guys. I may just clean it up, swap the pots and play the freakin' thing. I don't have a 12 string. Hell the guy paid $25 for it. He'd probably let me have it for fifty.
 
Yeah, ha ha. Great idea mate...if I only knew one of those guys. I may just clean it up, swap the pots and play the freakin' thing. I don't have a 12 string. Hell the guy paid $25 for it. He'd probably let me have it for fifty.

It will probably gain in value but only if it becomes vogue. Play it value it and enjoy it.

Tell the guy what I often tell friends who are not sure about valuations I give. It goes like this "I'll buy it for $50 and if it ends up selling for $2000 I'll split the winnings with you."....:)
 
Tell the guy what I often tell friends who are not sure about valuations I give. It goes like this "I'll buy it for $50 and if it ends up selling for $2000 I'll split the winnings with you."....:)
We think too much alike. If I keep it and put some money into a clean up/refurb, setup and stuff I'll likely keep the thing forever. The guy just gave me an 1894 Illustrated History of the Civil War (US) he found in a trash bin. He's not into history but he knows I am. Beat to shit but some guy is asking $300 on ebay for the same book in not much better condition. I told him the same thing - okay I'll take it and if I ever sell it I'll keep a finder's fee and give you the rest.
 
We think too much alike. If I keep it and put some money into a clean up/refurb, setup and stuff I'll likely keep the thing forever. The guy just gave me an 1894 Illustrated History of the Civil War (US) he found in a trash bin. He's not into history but he knows I am. Beat to shit but some guy is asking $300 on ebay for the same book in not much better condition. I told him the same thing - okay I'll take it and if I ever sell it I'll keep a finder's fee and give you the rest.

Thats about the size of it. If your honest with people generally they are honest with you and you get to keep your friends too.
 
Hey ... that's an eleven stringer not a twelve stringer!
It's gonna be a zero-stringer shortly. I'm taking it down to my local guy this am - see if there is any value on the books and assess whether it's worth fixing up. There is a slight neck bow. If that can be dealt with I'm gonna do it up Rick style with flat-wounds. Could be fun.
 
It just might be a Bruno. the Royal artist series had a head stock like that - though a different body shape. They were a US re- badge/distributor for Teisco. THose pickups'll chime quite brightly.
I LOVE that era of MIJs. I missed a 12 of my Royal Artist when I couldn't get back to the computer to cinch the ebay deal.
 
Thanks for the info, Ray. Best indications are that it was built by Kawai maybe after the Teisco acquisition (1967). The headstock is a Teisco design. These companies did a lot of contract work for each other as well as off-shore marketers so certain "markers" are not necessarily definitive. The crazy world of Japanese guitar manufacturing in the sixties and early seventies!

From the video it's certain that this model was at least marketed as a Black Jack which was a brand name of Harris-Fandel of Boston. They also had a Fandel line but I've not found any model listings or pictures of this type. I have seen a picture of the same guitar in wine red badged as a Crown from Crown music of Pasadena (no relation to Crown amps). I'm leaning toward Black Jack/Fandel just because of the proximity to Boston. I'm guessing they had them in a fair number of New England music stores back in the day but who knows? Kinda neat chasing this shit down but frustrating because of the lack of good pictures and records.

On the refurb front some good news. The neck straightened up nicely with a truss rod tweak and all the electronics should survive - just need cleaning. My shop guy is researching early Ric string gauges and availability of flat-wounds. I'm going for that Rickosound (not the stereo thing - just playing with words). Gonna have a jangly Byrd thing going on when it's done. I'll probably hate it - lol.

It's really surprising the shape this thing is in. It must have lived under a bed for forty years for the lack of wear. Of course that may be an indication that it was a total piece of shit and not worth playing. Also the neck was only slightly bowed so it's either got a really strong truss rod or it was kept untensioned. I'm surprised that anyone would use such care on a Japanese cheapo.

Anyway a fun project. If it turns out well I may look at doing it again with a likely subject. They're cheap enough.
 
Black Jack! Lou - you just knocked the cobwebs around a bit.
I had a black Jack bass way back in the day that looked just like this.
The tag on the head stock way that cheap metal foil that was glued on and I was able to remove it with no hassles at all.
Be sure and have yer guy check the tuning machines really good for I think that was the weak spot on the bass I had but then again that was a bass.
 
Henry - do you remember Black Jack or Fandel guitars being sold new in these parts? The one in the video is slightly different; different pickguard and knobs, metal guard over the bridge and "Steel Reinforced Neck" stamped in the neck bolt plate - mine just says "Made in Japan" and of course (and aggravatingly so) the name sticker/decal is long gone.
 
Yes a few Lou.
One was in Keene called Noel's Music, he closed his doors in the early 80's - late 70's though.
And Hampshire Music in Nashua, Harry sold the business to his brother Alan and he moved it to Keene. He sold it and has now become a much smaller store offering many lessons.

The one guy you should talk to is the owner of Retro Music - Jeff Firestone. Also in the city of Keene he is very knowledgeable and helpful.
 
Cool Henry. Thanx for the tips.

This obscure Japanese re-badged game is kinda cool. Tracing old Gibbys and Fenders is way too easy.
 
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