HR design and build thread part III - The build.

Beautiful work so far! You really raise the bar for guys like me, but I like it. It's inspiring. :)
Nice tool! I'll be making one of those. I can think of a few uses for which it would be very handy. When I built the Jr. I put a taper to the body of about 1/4 inch. It would work great for that.

POIDH :)

I'm off to work on mine now. I haven't messed with it for a couple days.

The router s;ed is a valuable jig. It's perfect for selective thicknessing and tapering.

Been busy on a few other things but more progress pics will follow.
 
So, I'm back on this now that other work is out of the way.

I need to decide on pickups as my new winder is ready for testing and the size and location is needed so I can route at the same time as the body chambres. We all seem to be coming down on the side of a p90 based approach. Anyone got any specifics other than that or are we going to leave it to me? I like milnoques idea of a telebridge pickup alongside a p90 neck pickup.

I'm going to work on the headstock veneer and the neck a bit at the same time hopefully come up with some possible outlines.
 
I don't have a problem with any p'up configuration.
personally I've never had good luck with the tele bridge p'up.
Basically have always considered it unusable. But then, I'm not much of a bridge p'up guy anyways. I hate the bridge p'up on a strat for instance.
I do use the bridge on my Stinnett ..... always in 'bucker mode. (Duncan p-rails)

So if you're gonna wind them and we go that way please design a p'up that's not thin and dinky sounding.
 
I don't have a problem with any p'up configuration.
personally I've never had good luck with the tele bridge p'up.
Basically have always considered it unusable. But then, I'm not much of a bridge p'up guy anyways. I hate the bridge p'up on a strat for instance.
I do use the bridge on my Stinnett ..... always in 'bucker mode. (Duncan p-rails)

So if you're gonna wind them and we go that way please design a p'up that's not thin and dinky sounding.

I don't use bridge pickups on their own but I do blend them in to the sound to add a bit of bite to the neck p/up. Bridge alone is OK for most of my jazz gigs but for the punchy stuff I usually need a little edge...

I think we are going to need a bit of advice from others here. I readily admit that pickup design is not one of my strengths. When I have done it before it's been to a specific demand or for a repair. I love a new challenge though.
 
I think we are going to need a bit of advice from others here. I readily admit that pickup design is not one of my strengths. When I have done it before it's been to a specific demand or for a repair. I love a new challenge though.
There are quite a few things that can be done to shape the tone of a pickup. I'm not a big fan of the chickin pickin' twang, but that's not all you can do with a tele.

What type of tone are you all looking for? Post some clips.
 
There are quite a few things that can be done to shape the tone of a pickup. I'm not a big fan of the chickin pickin' twang, but that's not all you can do with a tele.

What type of tone are you all looking for? Post some clips.

When I think surf guitar I think Dick Dale. Others may think otherwise....
 
When I think surf guitar I think Dick Dale. Others may think otherwise....
Dick Dale is one of my all time heroes. My growing up in Southern California in the sixties had a big impact on my taste in music. The first record I ever owned was "Wipeout"

Hanging out with DD after a show. My Daughter's band opened that night. The girl in the picture is one of her best friends. She's a manager at the Hard Rock. He was super cool. I had a chance to visit with him for quite a while.
dick_dale1.jpg
 
I kind of knew he'd be a cool guy...:thumbs up:

His sound was/is pretty much straight single coil to me so thats why I say p90 and tele bridge. Question is what config of magnets wire and turns..?
 
I kind of knew he'd be a cool guy...:thumbs up:

His sound was/is pretty much straight single coil to me so thats why I say p90 and tele bridge. Question is what config of magnets wire and turns..?

My favorite P-90 tones come from the bridge position. If you want a DD tone, the easiest way to get that is with a strat neck pu.


OK, recipe's it is.*

For a tele bridge pickup a good starting point would be IMO, you could try South polarity AlNiCo 3 or 5, 8,500 turns of AWG42 poly wound clockwise with moderate to heavy scatter. The heavier scatter will soften the resonant peak, and the slight overwind will lower it. Both of these combined will yield a pickup that is slightly mellower than a vintage 50's or 60's tone, and should blend well with a P-90.

On the P-90 at the neck. I would wind North up AlNiCo 5 CCW around 9,700 turns with a mild scatter. Be careful with the P-90 bobbins. If you use too much tension they will flare badly, and you won't be able to get the cover on. If the A5 is too harsh, try A2 magnets. This is a slight underwind which will make the pickup a little brighter.

Controls, and tone caps are going to make a very big difference, so be prepared to do some experimentation there.

Tag, you're it!
 
My favorite P-90 tones come from the bridge position. If you want a DD tone, the easiest way to get that is with a strat neck pu.


OK, recipe's it is.*

For a tele bridge pickup a good starting point would be IMO, you could try South polarity AlNiCo 3 or 5, 8,500 turns of AWG42 poly wound clockwise with moderate to heavy scatter. The heavier scatter will soften the resonant peak, and the slight overwind will lower it. Both of these combined will yield a pickup that is slightly mellower than a vintage 50's or 60's tone, and should blend well with a P-90.

On the P-90 at the neck. I would wind North up AlNiCo 5 CCW around 9,700 turns with a mild scatter. Be careful with the P-90 bobbins. If you use too much tension they will flare badly, and you won't be able to get the cover on. If the A5 is too harsh, try A2 magnets. This is a slight underwind which will make the pickup a little brighter.

Controls, and tone caps are going to make a very big difference, so be prepared to do some experimentation there.

Tag, you're it!

I was thinking along these lines exactly.

I don't understand the wire winding well enough to know whether or not the values you propose wil get anywhere close to matching the output of the two pickups, but that would be what I would shoot for. I'd rather add overwinding to the Tele pickup than underwinding to the p-90. A slight underwind is what I had in mind there. I wouldn't mind if the Tele pickup lost some of its high end to get the two balanced. If that's what you've tried to get with this recipe, we're on exactly the same page.
 
Thanks guys, That sort of input into this build is exactly what I was hoping for.

@JCH. I shall look into the recipe. I think I have most of the parts kicking about for that. What to do with the neck pickup shape is possibly an issue as I hadn't pictured this with a big scratchplate or a tele bridge. I may well make up a bobbin to reduce the route cavity...
 
I read somewhere that a wider (flatter) coil is warmer than a taller (narrower) coil. I have no idea if that's true, but if it is it has bearing on the shape.

If it were my guitar I would want the neck pickup to be very warm. If the above is true, I would lean toward keeping about the P-90 footprint on the neck. If it were to have a cover that was rounded to match the coil it would look great on a surf guitar. I would have it mount like a soapbar rather than dogears. Extra bonus points would be given for a brushed aluminum cover ala Paul Bigsby's solidbodies of the late '40s and early '50s. Does anyone here have the skills to make covers like that?

The taller, thinner bridge pickup could mount the same way and have a matching cover. you could match the set to whatever bridge design you chose. Nickel would look better than chrome for the other hardware to go with these IMHO.
 
This just shows the pickups I'm describing. I'd like to angle the one at the bridge, only because I think I would like the look.
 

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  • Surf IV-Pickups.pdf
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I read somewhere that a wider (flatter) coil is warmer than a taller (narrower) coil. I have no idea if that's true, but if it is it has bearing on the shape.

If it were my guitar I would want the neck pickup to be very warm. If the above is true, I would lean toward keeping about the P-90 footprint on the neck. If it were to have a cover that was rounded to match the coil it would look great on a surf guitar. I would have it mount like a soapbar rather than dogears. Extra bonus points would be given for a brushed aluminum cover ala Paul Bigsby's solidbodies of the late '40s and early '50s. Does anyone here have the skills to make covers like that?

The taller, thinner bridge pickup could mount the same way and have a matching cover. you could match the set to whatever bridge design you chose. Nickel would look better than chrome for the other hardware to go with these IMHO.

Yep wider/flatter is warmer. Thats the theory. It does depend on a few other things as well but thats why I like the idea of the p90. We now have no space under the strings for dog ears so it will have to be cavity mounted.

The covers can be made from anything really as long as it doesn't overly impact on the coil and magnet. I will probably save some thing fancy for mkII. They can always be added in any case.

The drawing you posted shows the pickups square on?
 
I didn't know what bridge you were going with. That will have some bearing on the pickup angle. I just modified the pickup covers on the old drawing so you could see what I had in mind. I'll redo it when a bridge is specified. I hope some dimensions are available.

Meanwhile, here is a headstock drawing that can be used as a starting point for discussion.
 

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  • Surf IV-Headstock.pdf
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Also to add. We can no longer go for the tuno-matic option as the top and neck are in line much as the fender style. I was working to the type of bridges discussed previously which I think were basically schaller?
 
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