HR design and build thread part III - The build.

I sorta like the looks of the point on the neck join but I'd be more concerned with 'feel'.
I've gotten used to having good upper fret access and I'm pretty much hooked on it.
The point might look cool but how will it affect the way it feels playing up there?
It might actually even be a point of reference that you use to know where you are on the neck so I'm not against or for it ...... just wondering about that aspect.

Thats kind of the way I was thinking. I'll try and think through a few options with it. The point could be pushed back further with some fairly simple body contour on the back but that might change the cavity options. It's always a trade off..
 
Hog out with a draw knife and then rasps. Spoke shave for final finishing then scrapers.

A spoke shave is really a fine edge finishing tool, at least it was when I apprenticed. Nothing would surprise me these days though...;)

LOL, The draw-knives I used to use for waney-edging oak beams were a bit of a rough-arsed tool in my hands. :D Mind you, we were never given the time to grind and hone them to a properly usable state.
 
LOL, The draw-knives I used to use for waney-edging oak beams were a bit of a rough-arsed tool in my hands. :D Mind you, we were never given the time to grind and hone them to a properly usable state.

Size and shape of the blade os important. Same as with any tool really. I use them less and less to be honest and these days rough out with a bandsaw and rasp. Not so easy on a neck through though..
 
So, do you profile the neck by sight and feel, or do you use a set of gauges to check?

I'll thickness in the square to the correct thickeness at the first an twelfth fret then remove as much from the curve as possible with a bandsaw and rough out with a rasp. The final profile is done once the fingerboard has the radius on it and before the frets are in. I'll work either to templates or feel for the final profile, makes no difference to me.
 
Hey Muttley,

I'm excited to see you're taking up this project again.

If you're using an opaque finish on this test guitar it doesn't matter what you use on the top. For a "real" one I second the suggestion of walnut. Even better if you used a contrasting strip of thick veneer to dress up the joint between the wings and neck blank.

If the guitar were for me I would suggest a p-90 in the neck position with an overwound Tele bridge pickup.

I like what I see so far.
 
Hey Muttley,

I'm excited to see you're taking up this project again.

If you're using an opaque finish on this test guitar it doesn't matter what you use on the top. For a "real" one I second the suggestion of walnut. Even better if you used a contrasting strip of thick veneer to dress up the joint between the wings and neck blank.

If the guitar were for me I would suggest a p-90 in the neck position with an overwound Tele bridge pickup.

I like what I see so far.

Hey milnoque good to see you on board again.

I'm going to put a few hours in on this today. The first thing I'm going to need to establish is the top. I'm going with a piece of English Walnut for the top because I have quite a bit here. Should it cover the top completely or just the wings? Where are the cavities going to be and how much am I taking out? I also need a headstock outline..

The idea behind this method of building is that all things are possible but at this stage I need to work out the top and cavities before I can press on.
 
To my mind if you're puting a top on you ought to put it across completely. To put in a piece to "represent" the through neck is a bit weird. Where form follows function completely the through neck would either be actually visible as itself and be at the same level as the top - and you can't do that with the current point if putting a top on is a significant and preplanned part of the construction OR the top is the top & that is its function so it covers the whole top.
Headstock shape is a very tricky one - so many knock offs made exaggerations of name brands - like the Guyatone elongated fender head on their mosrite copies that they developed the beautifully ugly aesthetic to a new level but more "original" types like the Bruno Royal Artist ended up being copied all over. The Simple open book style is over done too. How do you come up with something that is of itself without being outlandish to be so? How about a shovel handle? An axe handle? The violin scroll has bee done to death, how about a feather? Little Boy from Hiroshima? The cockpit tip of a B52? A Razor blade? Take a leaf from the mouseman furniture maker's book?
I want more pictures though because you do them so well.
cavities is a hard one. Is the plan for it to be a plank with wings, a plank with light weight wings, a plank with wings that are specifically tailored to enhance the sound or a plank with wings and cavaties to lighten the overall weight?
My personal pref would be to try to use the chambers acoustically is that's at all possible. I have a Sheraton II that's a plank with a pair of huge wings that are also almost 100% cavity. I HOPE that they alter the sound somewhat but I don't know if they really do & I'm not inclined to rip them off to find out.
 
To my mind if you're puting a top on you ought to put it across completely. To put in a piece to "represent" the through neck is a bit weird. Where form follows function completely the through neck would either be actually visible as itself and be at the same level as the top - and you can't do that with the current point if putting a top on is a significant and preplanned part of the construction OR the top is the top & that is its function so it covers the whole top.

If I'm reading you right I get your point and completely agree that to fake a neck through piece on the top would be daft. However at this stage I can still add caps to the wings and bring them flush to the neck through piece in the centre. If it is to cover the whole top I would reduce the thickness of the neck block now so it is flush with the body. Does that make sense?

The guitar will have to have some form of top added to cover the chambres that are planned. The question is am I to make the existing neck block part of that top or reduce the neck block so it is flush and cap over that and hide the neck through. Hopefully the beauty of this "build off an assembled mold" method is that it will allow me to make all those choices without the need to re jig or make up new templates.


Headstock shape is a very tricky one - so many knock offs made exaggerations of name brands - like the Guyatone elongated fender head on their mosrite copies that they developed the beautifully ugly aesthetic to a new level but more "original" types like the Bruno Royal Artist ended up being copied all over. The Simple open book style is over done too. How do you come up with something that is of itself without being outlandish to be so? How about a shovel handle? An axe handle? The violin scroll has bee done to death, how about a feather? Little Boy from Hiroshima? The cockpit tip of a B52? A Razor blade? Take a leaf from the mouseman furniture maker's book?
I want more pictures though because you do them so well.

I have a few headstock designs that I use and you are correct there is very little that can be claimed to be original. I had it mind to stick with the surf design and take a six aside design and make the lower part echo some form of "wave". I was wondering if anyone else had some ideas to throw about.

There will be plenty more pictures as it develops. I always take a load as I'm building because they are better than written notes and with my increasing age I need to refer back when I ask myself "how did I do that before. I do take a list of measurements as I go as well.

cavities is a hard one. Is the plan for it to be a plank with wings, a plank with light weight wings, a plank with wings that are specifically tailored to enhance the sound or a plank with wings and cavaties to lighten the overall weight?
My personal pref would be to try to use the chambers acoustically is that's at all possible. I have a Sheraton II that's a plank with a pair of huge wings that are also almost 100% cavity. I HOPE that they alter the sound somewhat but I don't know if they really do & I'm not inclined to rip them off to find out

I'm certain that the cavities on any guitar will influence the sound exactly how is indeterminate. The original thread where this was discussed went along the lines of a chambred guitar rather than a hollow body so I would imagine that we are going for less weight and a degree of "acoustic wood" in the sound that chambred guitars seem to provide. As I say it is a hard one to predict.

I'm currently roughing out the fingerboard and truss rod slot right now so that I can move on with the body and cavities next...
 
So, as to the headstock,

1) Three on a side
2) Six on a side
3) 4 X 2
4) 5 X 1

I personnaly dislike numbers 3 and 4. I figure if we can get this much sorted, we can go from there. I'd be glad to draw some headstocks if I can find out what people want.

On the chambers,

For the mock-up with it's poplar body I doubt there's any need for chamcering at all. That guitar is likely to be very light and resonant. That said, I'm all for making it as hollow as practical. JMHO
 
So, as to the headstock,

1) Three on a side
2) Six on a side
3) 4 X 2
4) 5 X 1

I personnaly dislike numbers 3 and 4. I figure if we can get this much sorted, we can go from there. I'd be glad to draw some headstocks if I can find out what people want.

On the chambers,

For the mock-up with it's poplar body I doubt there's any need for chamcering at all. That guitar is likely to be very light and resonant. That said, I'm all for making it as hollow as practical. JMHO

I vote six aside and wave theme...

It will need chambres at least under the soundholes that I intend to jig up for.
 
While deliberating on the top and cavity locations it's time to route the truss rod slot and taper the fingerboard.

First thing is to line up the fingerboard on the neck blank and put a couple of pinholes through the fret slot so it can go back in EXACTLY the same position every time. This will also help stop the fingerboard slipping when time comes to glue it onto the neck blank.

Once the fingerboard is in the right place small veneer pins are tapped through the pin holes to locate the f/board.

fbpinlocation.jpg

fbpin.jpg

The pin holes allow me to mark and cut the taper off of the neck blank or the mold since both have the same taper.

fbcuttosize.jpg

fbonjig.jpg

Once the taper is cut the finger board can be set aside and the truss rod channel cut..

Reach for one of many truss rod jigs.

This one cuts a 10mm channel for a standard u section rod.


trussrodjig.jpg

trussrodtest2.jpg

trussrod in2.jpg

fbandtrussroddone.jpg

The sharp eyed amongst you will notice the pin locations on the neck have been routed away. These will be replaced when the wooden fillet is over the truss rod and before the f/b is glued.

More later
 
Going to pick out a fairly average piece of English Walnut for the top and joint it up incase we go with the all over top approach. If not I can still rip it apart for the wings.

walnut selection2.jpg

Walnut top joint1.jpg

walnutjoint3.jpg

A quick play on the shooting board and it's ready for jointing.

walnutjoint1.jpg

Jointed up and wedged closed on a board. A little weight to stop it cupping under pressure.
 
6 on a side and wave theme is good in my opinion.

personally I'd prefer the top to fully cover the top.
 
Top covering the neck through it is. To do that I need to remove the thickness of the top from the body and from the neck block so the top butts up to the neck block and the f/b lays flat across both.

First cut the top to rough outline.

cuttop.jpg

Offering it up to the body shows the step in the body and neck block that needs be cut.

toptosize3.jpg

toptosize2.jpg

Cutting a step like that needs the router sled. First I'll take the neck block down and then the body blank.

The router sled allows a plunge router to travel across the work piece to thickness accurately when a surface planer cannot be used. Once the router is set to the correct depth it will cut whatever you clamp under it to the same thickness. In this case the neck blank and body leaving the neck itself flush with the top of the body.

neckthickness2.jpg

The cap now fits flush with the top of the neck block and the fingerboard lays flat on top.

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Today the headstock veneer and the cavities should start to take shape.
 

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Cavities.. Where and how deep, big?

I'm going to bung a veneer on the face of the headstock plate today and have a play with some outlines. If anyone has some ideas plaese chuck them in here..

Pickups. Need to start thinking about them. I have asked JCH if he will collaborate on some designs as he has more experience designing p/ups than I do but all other ideas welcome. It would be cool if we make our own p/ups too.
 
Cavities.. Where and how deep, big?

I'm going to bung a veneer on the face of the headstock plate today and have a play with some outlines. If anyone has some ideas plaese chuck them in here..

Pickups. Need to start thinking about them. I have asked JCH if he will collaborate on some designs as he has more experience designing p/ups than I do but all other ideas welcome. It would be cool if we make our own p/ups too.

Won't the controls layout and the soundhole design have some bearing on the shape of the cavities? I say just make them as large as practical.

In keeping with the surf guitar theme I vote for single coil pickups.

I really like the look of the pickups on Paul Bigsby's guitars of the late 40s.

Google Image Result for http://www.bigsby.com/vibe/wp-content/uploads/1949-Bigsby.jpg

I've never heard one though.

I like the adjustable polepieces and the ceramic magnets from the G&L special design pickups that come on the ASAT Special:

G&L MFD pickup for ASAT Special

I would look to 5-8% underwound P-90 pickups to describe the tone I would want. They fall about right on the darkness/brightness scale and can be warm and sparkly at the same time. they retain the ability to overdrive an amp at the same time.
 
Won't the controls layout and the soundhole design have some bearing on the shape of the cavities? I say just make them as large as practical.

In keeping with the surf guitar theme I vote for single coil pickups.

I really like the look of the pickups on Paul Bigsby's guitars of the late 40s.

Google Image Result for http://www.bigsby.com/vibe/wp-content/uploads/1949-Bigsby.jpg

I've never heard one though.

I like the adjustable polepieces and the ceramic magnets from the G&L special design pickups that come on the ASAT Special:

G&L MFD pickup for ASAT Special

I would look to 5-8% underwound P-90 pickups to describe the tone I would want. They fall about right on the darkness/brightness scale and can be warm and sparkly at the same time. they retain the ability to overdrive an amp at the same time.
some variation of P 90's would be good for me also.
I've never really gigged with them until my Stinnett which has Duncan P-rails in it. I've since really found myself leaving the neck in P90 mode ..... really a nice sound. But the P90 side of the P-rails is kinda smallish and I think a full sized P90 might be an awesome thing.
 
Beautiful work so far! You really raise the bar for guys like me, but I like it. It's inspiring. :)
Cutting a step like that needs the router sled.....

...The router sled allows a plunge router to travel across the work piece to thickness accurately when a surface planer cannot be used. Once the router is set to the correct depth it will cut whatever you clamp under it to the same thickness.
Nice tool! I'll be making one of those. I can think of a few uses for which it would be very handy. When I built the Jr. I put a taper to the body of about 1/4 inch. It would work great for that.

Today the headstock veneer and the cavities should start to take shape.
POIDH :)

I'm off to work on mine now. I haven't messed with it for a couple days.
 
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