Guitars with smaller scale necks

sarge117

New member
I have a Japanese made ESP and a Les Paul Studio.

I am thinking of adding to the stable. The ESP is of much higher quality then my Les Paul. The Les Paul is the mohagony studio model.

I'm not crazy about the Les Paul for a lot of reasons, but there is one thing about the Les Paul compared to the ESP. The scale of the neck.

The scale of the neck is much smaller on the Les Paul. Do to the fact that I do not have the biggest hands, doing a lot of things is much easier on the Les Paul.

I went to Guitar Center and tried out a bunch of Les Pauls, and it seems this reduced scale is pretty standard, or atleast on all the ones I tried.

Are there any other guitars you guys know of that come with the smaller scale necks that are of good quality?

I found a fender at GC that I loved. High quality hardware and for only 1K. But it had the large scale neck. http://www.guitarcenter.com/Fender-...caster-HSS-Electric-Guitar-511165-i1168160.gc

I didn't see any of the Les Pauls with this quality for only 1K. I had to move up to 2K before I saw that level of quality.

Other then Les Pauls, are there any other common guitars that have the lower scale neck

I know the ESP Eclipse II does, and that is for only 500 more then the fender. Awesome quality as well. But they all come with EMG's standard. And I hate to admit it, but EMG's are just not my thing. I have an OCD I throw on the front end when I want to hit the preamp tubes harder. I can turn that off. I prefer the sound of humbuckers.
 
The Fender Jaquar has a 24" scale, and if you prefer the sound of humbuckers, there's the Fender Classic Player Jaguar Special HH or the Fender Jaguar HH for about 1/2 the price of the AVRI Jag. Also, the Jag HH don't have a tremolo, depending if that's important to you, or not. Off hand, I'm not thinking of any other guitars that are of the short scale persuasion, other than Gibsons and Epiphones.

Matt

Thanks for the reply. I'm gonna try to swing by guitar center this weekend and try one out. It looks a lot different then I am used to. But if it plays well I can probably get past that.

In fact I am not interested in a tremolo. I rarely use it.
 
Ibanez makes several models with a shorter scale (thinner front to back also) very similar to the Gibson scale. I have a AR300, very similar to a double cutaway Les Paul in both feel and sound (around $1200 US) but with a thinner neck. The stock pickups (EMGs) were a little bright sounding to suit me so I popped in a set of Di Margio humbuckers. This has been my #1 choice guitar for the past year. If you can locate one give it a try, it might be exactly what you are looking for. Hamer also makes guitars with a shorter scale neck but they are a bit more expensive.
 
Ibanez makes several models with a shorter scale (thinner front to back also) very similar to the Gibson scale. I have a AR300, very similar to a double cutaway Les Paul in both feel and sound (around $1200 US) but with a thinner neck. The stock pickups (EMGs) were a little bright sounding to suit me so I popped in a set of Di Margio humbuckers. This has been my #1 choice guitar for the past year. If you can locate one give it a try, it might be exactly what you are looking for. Hamer also makes guitars with a shorter scale neck but they are a bit more expensive.

Hmmm,

That's a nice looking guitar as well!

Hamer is definately out of my proce range. I would by an ESP Eclipse and pull out the EMG's and throw in some Seymour Duncans before I go that route.
 
USA-made Hamers are awesome guitars and you can find them much cheaper (say 50% +/- and often -) of their regular new street price.
I also really like the Michael Kelly guitars. I have a USA Hamer Studio Archtop, a USA Gibson SG Standard and a USA G&L Legacy strat-- all of which I love and which set a pretty high standard (none are particularly expensive, but all have great fit, finish, action and sound), but I was really amazed at how good those Michael Kelly guitars are. Many models come stock with Tonepros bridges and Grover tuners. The Rockfield pickups are supposedly very good as well (I've owned two-- one came with the pickups already upgraded to Rio Grande P-90's, the other, which I still have, came with the older MK PAF's which are currently getting replaced by SD P-Rails).
Even cheaper, I briefly had a cheap SX guitar that had been properly set up (fret dressing/level, etc.) and it was a great player!
 
Ibanez makes several models with a shorter scale (thinner front to back also) very similar to the Gibson scale. I have a AR300, very similar to a double cutaway Les Paul in both feel and sound (around $1200 US) but with a thinner neck. The stock pickups (EMGs) were a little bright sounding to suit me so I popped in a set of Di Margio humbuckers. This has been my #1 choice guitar for the past year. If you can locate one give it a try, it might be exactly what you are looking for. Hamer also makes guitars with a shorter scale neck but they are a bit more expensive.

Good to know, I like short scale myself. Currently have a Byrdland, but a solid body short scale would be great to have as well. Thanks!
 
I'm not sure what you mean by "quality" differences between the ESP and the Gibson, but I assume you mean that the fit and finish of the ESP is better. I also have one of the Gibson LPVMs that you have, and it had some high frets and needed a setup when I bought it. I paid a local luthier at a good store about $75 to level, dress, and polish the frets, properly cut the nut, adjust the truss rod, put on my favorite strings and intonate, and adjust the pickup heights. The fretwork is now amazing, and I a) didn't have to buy a new guitar, and b) still have a Les Paul that says "Gibson" on the headstock.

Do not discount the value of having a good tech look at that Gibby (unless your other reasons for disliking it are major).
 
I'm not sure what you mean by "quality" differences between the ESP and the Gibson, but I assume you mean that the fit and finish of the ESP is better. I also have one of the Gibson LPVMs that you have, and it had some high frets and needed a setup when I bought it. I paid a local luthier at a good store about $75 to level, dress, and polish the frets, properly cut the nut, adjust the truss rod, put on my favorite strings and intonate, and adjust the pickup heights. The fretwork is now amazing, and I a) didn't have to buy a new guitar, and b) still have a Les Paul that says "Gibson" on the headstock.

Do not discount the value of having a good tech look at that Gibby (unless your other reasons for disliking it are major).

By quality I mean a lot of the things it seems you had an issue with as well, plus maybe one other.

I actually love the dark Mahogony look.

My main problems are a). It does not stay in tune for more then a song, b)fretbuzz.

With regard to staying in tune, it comes with the deluxe tuners. When I apply new strings, I go through the string stretching process and really give them a work over. Still it seems I can not get this thing to stay in tune past a single song. It seems certain strings are more apt to go out of tune more then others. My E and G strings constantly go flat, very quickly in fact.

I've probably restrung this thing about 4 times, and it is always the E and G strings.

I am willing to shell out the cash to get better tuners. I can pound on my ESP and that thing stays in tune.

The nut binds, but I can also probably get a Luthier to fix that as well.

Fret buzz is a killer cause I can hear it through the amp. At first I thought the pickups just sucked because I was getting this really harsh sound everytime I hit a chord, but I finely realized it was the fret buzz.

For this I have gone ahead and adjusted the relief in the neck and adjusted the action higher then I normall would. It is not as bad, but it is still a problem.

With regard to this, you sound like you encountered this same problem. I have looked at the frets and they are seated properly. Are yuo saying the Luthier came back in and sanded them down? This could possibly be my problem.

I am willing to spend the dough on new tuners, and willing to pay to have someone fix the nut and fix the fretwork, provided it doesn't start going into the 3 to 4 hundred dollar range.

Thanks for the info. The one thing I love about the Les Paul is the neck. I can really shred on this thing much easier then on the ESP. The ESP has a 25.5 scale neck.
 
The problems I had specifically were fret buzz with medium to high action and tuning issues. My g and b strings were going sharp and flat all the time because they were binding in the nut. I also had intonation problems because the nut slots weren't cut to the right depth.

I took the guitar to Elderly Instruments, which is a nice local shop with a great repair team. The luthier I got went through and ever-so-slightly filed the high frets down so that they were all even. He then dressed the ends a bit to cut down on the effects of fret-sprout (if I should ever have an issue with it) and he took a Dremel and buffed each fret to a shine. They play great and look like chrome. He also did the basic setup work like tweaking the truss rod and action stuff. I paid him for an hour of labor and a pack of new strings. The action is great now, and there's no buzz detectable through the amp.

The well-cut nut fixed the tuning problems completely. I have tuned the guitar probably once or twice since I got the work done in September, and it's still in tune (FWIW, I don't beat up on it because my Fenders take most of the abuse).

The guitar was totally worth it! It doesn't have all of the flashy binding, etc., but it is one mean Les Paul. I played a bunch the day I bought it, and wouldn't have paid for it if it didn't work like it's "bigger" brothers. The luthier even commented on it being a really nice LP when I picked it up.

Personally, and it's just my humble opinion, but if you like the way the neck feels and you like all the parts (pickups, wood, color, etc.), spend your money on getting the guitar finished the way Gibson should have when they shipped it out. They make an awful lot of guitars, and with their business model they just can't afford to spend the time they should with each piece. For less than $100 you can have a luthier do what they should have, and you get to keep the nice guitar you already bought. You can't likely get a guitar that will play, sound, and look better than your LP for $100.
 
Oh, and I'm no luthier myself, but forget changing out the tuners. They are fine, tulip-y cool, and light to boot. The problem is most likely at the nut.
 
The problems I had specifically were fret buzz with medium to high action and tuning issues. My g and b strings were going sharp and flat all the time because they were binding in the nut. I also had intonation problems because the nut slots weren't cut to the right depth.

I took the guitar to Elderly Instruments, which is a nice local shop with a great repair team. The luthier I got went through and ever-so-slightly filed the high frets down so that they were all even. He then dressed the ends a bit to cut down on the effects of fret-sprout (if I should ever have an issue with it) and he took a Dremel and buffed each fret to a shine. They play great and look like chrome. He also did the basic setup work like tweaking the truss rod and action stuff. I paid him for an hour of labor and a pack of new strings. The action is great now, and there's no buzz detectable through the amp.

The well-cut nut fixed the tuning problems completely. I have tuned the guitar probably once or twice since I got the work done in September, and it's still in tune (FWIW, I don't beat up on it because my Fenders take most of the abuse).

The guitar was totally worth it! It doesn't have all of the flashy binding, etc., but it is one mean Les Paul. I played a bunch the day I bought it, and wouldn't have paid for it if it didn't work like it's "bigger" brothers. The luthier even commented on it being a really nice LP when I picked it up.

Personally, and it's just my humble opinion, but if you like the way the neck feels and you like all the parts (pickups, wood, color, etc.), spend your money on getting the guitar finished the way Gibson should have when they shipped it out. They make an awful lot of guitars, and with their business model they just can't afford to spend the time they should with each piece. For less than $100 you can have a luthier do what they should have, and you get to keep the nice guitar you already bought. You can't likely get a guitar that will play, sound, and look better than your LP for $100.


Thanks for the feedback. You have given me hope! I do love the love the look. And I love the neck. It is just basically all the same issues you had that are driving me up the wall.
 
I probably sound like a real weirdo, but I just think it would be hard to find something that beats a Gibby just because of fixable QC issues. I have an Ibanez Artcore Custom that has incredible quality, but I bought it used at Elderly (where they go through all of their inventory like that anyway) and I still paid $550. You'd be crazy to spend any more than the little necessary to bring the LP up to par.

Good luck, and let us know how it works out!
 
Even if I can get the LP up to snuff, I'll still buy another guitar :p (and still keep the LP)

And I am definately going to get something with the smaller scale neck.
 
Oh, and I'm no luthier myself, but forget changing out the tuners. They are fine, tulip-y cool, and light to boot. The problem is most likely at the nut.

Agreed. Tuners are generally geared down mechanically with a worm gear. There's no way in you-know-where that they are going to slip in any significant way, with the possible exception of the string slipping in the eye (unlikely) or slipping over itself because of wrapping issues.

If you are seeing any shifting of your tuning, odds are at least a thousand to one that it is sticking at the nut while you tune it, then slipping as you play and apply pressure (particularly up near/above the top fret).

A good quick fix that will narrow things down easily (and may solve the problem entirely if you're lucky) is to take a sharpened pencil (graphite) and rub it in the groove on the nut, coating the groove with graphite. This should reduce sticking in the nut. See if that makes it easier to get it to stay in tune. That might be enough by itself to solve the problem, or you might need to get a new nut cut, depending on a lot of factors like how overly deep the grooves in the nut are, etc. Either way, it's a pretty harmless workaround that at a minimum should help with the sticking somewhat.
 
The Fender Jaquar has a 24" scale, and if you prefer the sound of humbuckers, there's the Fender Classic Player Jaguar Special HH or the Fender Jaguar HH for about 1/2 the price of the AVRI Jag. Also, the Jag HH don't have a tremolo, depending if that's important to you, or not. Off hand, I'm not thinking of any other guitars that are of the short scale persuasion, other than Gibsons and Epiphones.

Matt

the jags with the trem assembly ..unless you really love jags ..might involve too much setup tweaking to keep in tune with low action.

also ...i think the musicman silhouette is an amazingly well made high quality guitar with a range of pickup combinations and the all important gibson scale length.

now if you could pick one up secondhand or in a shop deal then that would really be something.

they are so well made that secondhand is a small issue to consider.
 
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the jags with the trem assembly ..unless you really love jags ..might involve too much setup tweaking to keep in tune with low action.

Yeah, the Jag and Jazzmaster bridge can be a pain. A luthier friend of mine has developed a replacement bridge that is supposed to cure many of those ills. I've not personally used it, but he has a number of pretty high profile musicians that seem to like it. Apparently it is a drop in replacement. I need to track him down and give it a whirl.

http://www.masterybridge.com/bridge.html
 
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