Guitar intonation problem

Cool. If you do get any in or play them in shops let us know what you think. My recent opinion of Fender Americans is based mostly on those. Outside the AVRI series and some Mag7 series stuff I haven't been overly impressed with MIA Fenders. I should have clarified that in the post, but I was rambling off the cuff and didn't make the distinction.

Yeah I recently bought a Dano at a very good price. There was a 1960s Jazzmaster in a local shop and they wanted 3.8k for it. No way I was paying that. But I'd play it every time I went in...the Dano is actually better due to a more modern 9.5 radius. Same exact neck feel. I'm super impressed you can get what feels like a 60s Fender for under 2k (used). He could put the Custom Shop out of business over time. Fender should probably just hire that guy.
 
Haha. Wishful thinking. No private guy will put fender out of business. As soon as someone gets on the radar, the dreaded C&D letter shows up.

I have a freind who is done, gone, out of business after getting that letter. And he wasn't sctrach building. He used ALL Fender licensed parts. Despite the fact that Fender got royalty payments on every neck and body he used, they still shut him down.
Hmm. The power of corporations and their attys. Scary
 
Wow, I forgot about this topic, changing the strings did the trick! Thank you all for the help. Btw is every note in the guitar supposed to be pin pointed by the tuner? I mean I played an open string and the 12th, both are in tune, but when I play the notes in between, the tuner says it's a little off.
 
Wow, I forgot about this topic, changing the strings did the trick! Thank you all for the help. Btw is every note in the guitar supposed to be pin pointed by the tuner? I mean I played an open string and the 12th, both are in tune, but when I play the notes in between, the tuner says it's a little off.

I think that's what Miroslav was getting at when he said he tunes to the 5th and 17th frets. Personally I don't do that but can see the reasoning.

How high is your action? If it's high just depressing the strings will make it go sharp because you're elongating the string. Also the amount of pressure you use matters. Try to use the least amount of pressure to depress the string. Also, try re-tuning and stopping the moment the string hits pitch -- there is a tendency to tighten a little further for whatever reason, and that could explain sharp notes. Make sure you pull on the new strings to stretch them out, too. This will guarantee better stability, and if they're binding anywhere (nut/saddle) it should fix that, too.
 
Guitar frets are a compromise, so it's impossible for all the notes to measure in tune, i.e., to match what's in an electronic tuner or a properly tuned keyboard ("in tune" being a whole 'nother rabbit-hole filled with compromises). The point is you pick the notes you want to be in pitch, with most folks using the "0" and 12 fret locations because between those spots are where they spend most of their time. It's not a law, though, and if you spend more time playing at the 9th fret and above, it's probably better to move the posts up, as noted. At that point, things should be "close enough" to keep most listeners with even fair ears from squirming.

If you're horribly out of tune in between the frets where you've measured and assured that it's in pitch, either something is really wrong with the setup, such as the strings not breaking properly across the nut, action too high, improperly crowned/dressed frets, etc., one or more strings are false, your technique is a bit heavy-handed, or the guitar simply has a manufacturing fault (extremely unlikely on a bolt-neck Fender IME).
 
The tuner in my amp sim chain is the first one like it I have used. While tuning, I notice the readings vary wildly in both
directions -/+ while still appearing to be in tune. That is, the G or E letter indicator does not display flat or sharp while
the display may read -/+ 30 cents or more. I try to tune between +01 and +05 cents and it gets there but won't hold.
I'm sure there are guitarists with extra sensitive hearing who would be driven insane by anything other than a perfect
tuning. I used to play with one and it was not fun at all.

Well, it was this tuner I checked my intonation with on the open, 5th, 7th, and 12th frets. The 12th fret was the worst as it
would go extremely sharp - sometimes to the next note - when the open was tuned to +03 cents.

I haven't changed the strings yet, so we'll see.
 
I'm sure there are guitarists with extra sensitive hearing who would be driven insane by anything other than a perfect
tuning. I used to play with one and it was not fun at all.

I don't recall ever playing with you in any band or anything....?

:D ;)

Yeah, I'm often driven crazy by the small out of tune shit you get with guitars no matter how well set up and tune it.
The #$%* G-string is the biggest PITA going from chords, Major to Minor...then going to leads.
I use highly accurate Peterson strobe tuners...I have three of them, two desktop V-SAM models and one Stomp Classic for the floor....so I can get super-fine intonation and tuning, but the nature of the guitar strings/frets is always going to be working against that.

That said...I know how to "work the strings" as I play to counter that, and I'll also often adjust the string tuners while playing as I move back and forth between certain chords and leads, etc. Of course, this is primarily recording usage, so to me the tuning is always critical.
Odds are when I jam with other people, their shit is substantially more out of tune than my guitar, so then it's not as critical. :p
I'm often surprised by how much out of tune some people are...and they don't notice it...but yes, I does drive me nuts. :)
 
Now this whole intonation thing with my guitar is beginning to infect my brain. When all open strings are in tune, the 3rd fret is a bit sharp,
so that makes the fretted G chord a bit sharp.. so.. Ack! Stop it!.. :drunk:
 
Now this whole intonation thing with my guitar is beginning to infect my brain. When all open strings are in tune, the 3rd fret is a bit sharp,
so that makes the fretted G chord a bit sharp.. so.. Ack! Stop it!.. :drunk:

Just lengthen the string a little (by moving the saddle to the right).
 
Just lengthen the string a little (by moving the saddle to the right).

I know what you mean...and it's part of the usual intonation setup...but it doesn't really work.
It helps...just like making sure the nut slots are as low as they should be...but it's just the nature of the G-string.
You can do all that "stuff" that out there for improving your tuning setup...and then tune the G perfect for open, and it will be out when pressed.
You can tune it perfect for a pressed chord, and it will be out for single notes...or perfect for Major chords out for Minor...you can tune it perfect for one area of the neck, and it will be out at the opposite end when pressed. :facepalm:

It's just a fucked up string. :p
I've even tried wound G strings...even went to heavier gauges...and always the G doesn't play well relative to the other strings.
So it's about getting "good enough"...and also adjusting how you play/press it for various stuff.
Like I said, most people don't hear it when it's noticeably out...so the subtle intonation issues are often lost on them (present company excluded :) ).
 
I know what you mean...and it's part of the usual intonation setup...but it doesn't really work.
It helps...just like making sure the nut slots are as low as they should be...but it's just the nature of the G-string.
You can do all that "stuff" that out there for improving your tuning setup...and then tune the G perfect for open, and it will be out when pressed.
You can tune it perfect for a pressed chord, and it will be out for single notes...or perfect for Major chords out for Minor...you can tune it perfect for one area of the neck, and it will be out at the opposite end when pressed. :facepalm:

It's just a fucked up string. :p
I've even tried wound G strings...even went to heavier gauges...and always the G doesn't play well relative to the other strings.
So it's about getting "good enough"...and also adjusting how you play/press it for various stuff.
Like I said, most people don't hear it when it's noticeably out...so the subtle intonation issues are often lost on them (present company excluded :) ).

I have that issue with the G string on my Gretsch, but not on my Fenders. What causes that?
I figured some of that is due to headstock angle and how the string bends toward the peg on the Gretsch, whereas on the Fender they're more in-line. This seems to cause binding and generally weird behavior with that string.

Each manufacturer has different tension for the same strings, too. Earnie Ball Slinky .10-46s are a total of 105.78lbs, where as D'Addario .10s are 102.52. I've had better stability with D'Addario on both guitars, though that's just personal observation and could be some other factor. Does the total tension of the string matter in terms of stability?
 
Well...I'm not sure about stability, and that's a different issue...strings that are in-tune, and then easily go out, but yeah, there's something there too.

I'm just talking about the G-String never being equally in-tune everywhere or as much as all the other strings....regardless of brand or tension.
It's just a wonky step from the B-to-G and G-to-D.
I'm sure there's some drawn out technical explanation about that...but it don't help none. :D
 
I have that issue with the G string on my Gretsch, but not on my Fenders. What causes that?
I figured some of that is due to headstock angle and how the string bends toward the peg on the Gretsch, whereas on the Fender they're more in-line. This seems to cause binding and generally weird behavior with that string.

Each manufacturer has different tension for the same strings, too. Earnie Ball Slinky .10-46s are a total of 105.78lbs, where as D'Addario .10s are 102.52. I've had better stability with D'Addario on both guitars, though that's just personal observation and could be some other factor. Does the total tension of the string matter in terms of stability?
I think the difference may be scale length as I suggested before. Measure for yourself and see.
 
Ive listened to numerous live recordings where Jimi Hendrix would tune then stum an open E chord. In my head I'd scream Jimi youre not in tune. :D
Yet once he started playing he was perfectly in tune.

A guitar is a compensated scale meaning it's 'almost' right.

You figure you got six strings, some unwound, some wound, all different thicknesses, that are sharing a fret. Its never going to be percise like an electronic keyboard or a piano.
On a piano every note is it's own string. The key causes a 'hammer' to hit that one string only. Providing that string is propely tuned, its always in tune.

Whereas a guitar 'shares notes'. So it's NEVER going to be perfect, but a compromise, hence, compensated scale.

Despite its drawbacks, a good musician can always get it to play in tune.

I only use electronic tuners to get in the ballpark. The bulk of my tuning is done to chords. Get the chords you'll be mostly using in relative tune to each other and you'll be fine.

In the Jimi example I gave, he'd tune so an open E was 'almost' in tune, but worked brilliantly with everything he was playing.

That works for me. :D
 
I get what you're saying. There are times I know the strings are out of tune but they sound great in chords as well
as playing along with other's chords. Then when I retune it doesn't feel right.
 
Its never going to be percise like an electronic keyboard or a piano.
On a piano every note is it's own string. The key causes a 'hammer' to hit that one string only. Providing that string is propely tuned, its always in tune.


:laughings: ...yeah, I wish!

My piano is a bigger PITA with tuning than the guitars. :p

Most of the keys/notes each have 3 strings that the hammer hits...and so they have to be perfect with each other...and then they all have to be in-tune with the rest of the keys/notes. Not to mention, a piano uses "stretch" tuning...which is kinda what you do with a guitar with the compensated or "sweetened" tunings.
IOW, with a piano there's a whole LOT of fudging going on...and they actually will tune the mid section to but near as close to just...but the low section will be on the flat side and the high section on the sharp side...and somehow, all those little fuckers are supposed to play "nice". :D

A good piano tuner knows how to "stretch"...and to make it more complicated...there are various "stretched" tunings that work better/worse with the type of piano (upright, grand, baby)...plus, the real serious players have their preferred stretched tuning flavor.

Oh man, I've sat at my piano and spent a lot of time trying to get it back in tune when keys go out (I have the tuning hammer and rubber wedges, etc).
Getting a couple of keys back in tune is no big deal...but when there a bunch, it's a back-n-forth PITA.
At best...I'll tweak the section(s) that I need to utilize for a given song recording (I'm not doing classic music where I need the whole keyboard).
It's easy enough to tune the 3 strings per key/note...and I can get a good couple of octaves in tune...but that special "touch" to know just where and how much to stretch flat or sharp is not something I've practiced enough to be able to do well.
I'll bring my piano tuner in once a year or so when I plan to really use the piano a lot and wen I think it's gone out more than I want to screw with. He always tesll me it's not that bad overall...so at least I feel good that I am in the ballpark.
I've often lusted after a couple of the Peterson strobe hardware models...they have specific ones that include the "Stretch" tunings...but the lowest grade model that does that will go for $400-$500 used on eBay...never mind the new/higher end models.

I'll take guitar intonation and tuning over the piano any day! ;)
 
Ive listened to numerous live recordings where Jimi Hendrix would tune then stum an open E chord. In my head I'd scream Jimi youre not in tune. :D
Yet once he started playing he was perfectly in tune.

He played stoned and everyone listened stoned...which made it sound in tune... :D
 
He played stoned and everyone listened stoned...which made it sound in tune... :D

Hahaha priceless :D
But I'll take stoned Jimi over Satriani any day.

On the piano stuff, I had a neighbor that restored pianos. Seen him in action. Damn! Wouldn't want that job. But I could swear I've seen pianos in his shop where they were one hanmer per string.
 
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