Getting thick/wet/fuzzy/dreamy distortion without losing the guitar melody

valacirca

New member
Hi guys. I'm having this problem right now where I'm trying to record a section of music that I want to have thick, dreamy distortion like what you hear on shoegaze records (e.g. - My Bloody Valentine - Loveless)... but I only have a basic setup: a distortion pedal + amp, and I work using Reaper.

What happens is either I can maintain the melody (meaning the melody is audible/chord changes are recognizable and distinct) but the sound is too thin; OR, the sound is thick, wet and dreamy enough but I lose the melody under all the fuzz and distortion.

What do you think is the best way I can handle this considering what I'm working with?

I've split my guitar signal with my DI box with one output going directly to the mixer and another output as an input to my amp, which I mic into the mixer as well. For the rest of my setup, you can check out this thread: LINK

Thanks!
 
you don't need alot of overdrive when you record. you want to be able to hear all of the notes in the chords, and all that extra gain just makes the mix muddy. you want to EQ your amp so it sounds good recorder, not so it sounds good in the room.
 
Hi guys. I'm having this problem right now where I'm trying to record a section of music that I want to have thick, dreamy distortion like what you hear on shoegaze records (e.g. - My Bloody Valentine - Loveless)... but I only have a basic setup: a distortion pedal + amp, and I work using Reaper.

What happens is either I can maintain the melody (meaning the melody is audible/chord changes are recognizable and distinct) but the sound is too thin; OR, the sound is thick, wet and dreamy enough but I lose the melody under all the fuzz and distortion.

Thanks!

Something I learned a while back is at it's heart, distortion is compression. So, with that in mind the more distortion you use the more compressed your guitar tone will be. And if you don't know what compression is or you can't hear what it does try studying up on it. But, basically what is happening is it is squashing the dynamics of your tone which makes individual notes sound more like just one note.
 
While all posts so far have been on point, let me add another thought - you're recording, not playing live; this isn't an "either or" situation, as you can easily have both. Record a couple "thick, wet, and dreamy" tracks with the levels of saturation you want (maybe try a hair less gain than you're using, though) to give the "sound" of guitars so distorted they're washing out, and then over that overdub another pair of tracks that are cleaner. Use the cleaner tracks for definition and note clarity, and the heavily distorted tracks to give it that super-saturated, washed out sense. It'll take a bit of juggling, getting the relative levels between the two right (and you might need to add a fair amount of compression to the cleaner tracks), and more likely than not you'll want to differentiate them further with EQ, the cleaner one being pretty bright and the gainier one being dark and middier, would be my starting point, but since you're recording, you really CAN have it both ways.
 
Hi guys. I'm having this problem right now where I'm trying to record a section of music that I want to have thick, dreamy distortion like what you hear on shoegaze records (e.g. - My Bloody Valentine - Loveless)... but I only have a basic setup: a distortion pedal + amp, and I work using Reaper.

To get awesome-sounding distortion you need: great guitar -> great tube amp -> great speaker cabinet w/ great speakers. There are no shortcuts in getting great distortion, especially when it comes to high gain. I've been there and done that with far too many budget solutions: they never really work out.
 
Hey thanks, the layering thing seemed to improve what I was trying to do! And it's also more flexible in the sense that I can just adjust the levels of either of the two tracks if I want the resulting effect to be more fuzzy or not.

Although I'm thinking that maybe getting a fuzz pedal might improve things dramatically? delay + fuzz + reverb = win?

what do you guys think and what might you suggest?
 
Just imagine delay, into fuzz, into reverb into a high gain amp. That's gonna sound like a bowl of mashed shit.

It'll sound like a bowl of mashed shit before it even hits the reverb. I don't think there's even a descriptor that would be adequate for what comes out the end of the chain.
 
Just imagine delay, into fuzz, into reverb into a high gain amp. That's gonna sound like a bowl of mashed shit.
Great! Exactly what I was going for. Although I was thinking more of something like the aural equivalent of sticking your fingers into your eyes and into your brain then you twirl it around your head while getting sucked into a massive whirlpool in the middle of an epic storm...

Oh wait. That doesn't seem remotely close to a bowl of mashed shit, but it sounds awesome either way anyway. :cool:
 
To get awesome-sounding distortion you need: great guitar -> great tube amp -> great speaker cabinet w/ great speakers. There are no shortcuts in getting great distortion, especially when it comes to high gain. I've been there and done that with far too many budget solutions: they never really work out.

There is some truth here, but it isn't that simple. The non-dramaticised truth that has been stated ont hese pages a million times is that talent and skill with instruments are greater than any equipment. And when it comes to gear, many, many incredible sounding recordings have been done with budget equipment.

I think the principle is still true though: a crappy solid state amp into crappy effects into crappy amps into crappy cabs with crappy speakers will never record well (into crappy mics, preamps etc).

That said there is a hell of a lot of middle ground between that and a $5000 setup that can do some fine recording of distorted tracks. Just take all the great tracks recorded with old fender champs.

Daav
 
I would still get a good fuzz anyway just to experiment with, as that "dreamy fuzz" tone is not the same as what you get from pure amp/cab distortion or using a basic OD box…so you may need a good fuzz.

I have a few fuzz pedals...but I just picked up a Carl Martin "The Fuzz" pedal...and it's quite flexible with lots of tone options that will give you many different fuzz types or you can coax just basic OD tones w/o fuzz.
It's not your typical plug-n-play fuzz as it has a half-dozen knobs for you to adjust...but that's why you just might be able to dial in what you want with it.

And if you attempt the delay-fuzz-reverb chain you are talking about...try putting the fuzz first *fuzz-delay-reverb*...and then really back off the delay level so you can j-u-s-t hear it behind the clean/dry signal, so that it's nothing more than a "shadow" rather than a big/bold DELAY....
...and then work the reverb the same way...
...j-u-s-t getting it a little wet rather than all excited and juicy! ;)

It's a tight line working those three FX for rhythm...but you might be able to dial in a fair amount of dreamy fuzz while still maintaining a touch of clarity...but the type/amount of fuzz will be key, otherwise yeah, you will end up with oatmeal. :D
 
Great! Exactly what I was going for. Although I was thinking more of something like the aural equivalent of sticking your fingers into your eyes and into your brain then you twirl it around your head while getting sucked into a massive whirlpool in the middle of an epic storm...

Oh wait. That doesn't seem remotely close to a bowl of mashed shit, but it sounds awesome either way anyway. :cool:

Greg is right, though. I happen to be a fan of delay on distorted rhythm guitars (I'm a total Devin Townsend fanboi), but you're doing it wrong.

The thing is, you never (or, ALMOST never, 99.99% of the time) want to put time-based effects before gain simply because of the way they interact. If you record your tracks dry and then add delay (or, put a delay in the effects loop of your amp and then mic it, which is slightly less ideal since you lose the ability to move the delay around in the stereo mix), what you hear coming out of your speakers is echos of a distorted sound - you hear a huge crashing wall-of-distortion chord that starts echoing and reverberating and sounds like it was recorded in a huge cavernous space. That's cool.

If, however, you add delay before a major gain stage such as a fuzz or OD pedal or your amp's preamp, what you're doing is taking a clean signal with a lot of bouncy echoes on it, and then feeding it into a wall of distortion. It turns to absolute mud - you lose the "echo" effect as the gain compresses the living shit out of it, and the echos blur in with the original notes and turn into this inarticulate mess. You've got all these weird notes ringing against each other, and it just sounds like crap through a distorted amp.

Think of it as the difference between hearing an echo of a note you played, vs playing a note and then playing it again, I guess. Not a great analogy, but not something you want to do if you're trying to create a sense of space.

If you want to delay your rhythm guitars, then record them dry and apply delay in the mix. My experience has been that it tends to sound more articulate if you use a FX send to send the signal to a FX bus, and in thart buss use a tempo-timed delay at 100% wet (so it's all delay), and then high pass the delay to cut out most of the low end, and adjust the bus output to the desired "mix" between the two tracks. Try the high pass filter before the delay too - I can't remember if I've ever experimented (I don't do this sort of stuff that much), but I could certainly see it making a difference. Even doing it the "right" way, in a busy mix you run into mud issues when you're echoing so much of the midrange and the low end of the bass, and especially since your ear tends to latch onto the high end of the repeats a bit more (mine does, anyhow) to "recognize" them, you're likely to get a clearer sounding mix if you just chop out all that stuff you don't really need.

Also, go buy Devin Townsend's "Terria," or at least find a mp3 of "Canada" or "Mountain." It might not be to your taste, exactly, but that first track, especially, is probably the best example of a delayed heavily distorted guitar part just kicking all sorts of ass in a mix. "Earth Day" is worth a listen too, simply because he makes it work in a much more uptempo song than I'd expect. I fuckin' love the production on that album, there's just so much going on. :D
 
If you record your tracks dry and then add delay...


IMO…this is really the best way to do it, unless you absolutely MUST play your rig WITH a delay pedal or the reverb on.

For tracking…I never record delays or reverb. If I need to hear some delay or reverb while tracking, I will just add some to my headphone cue mix…but the signal coming from the amp/cab is always 100% dry.

Now…if you are playing live, and like me, you don’t care for built-in FX loops on amps, then always stick your delay and then reverb pedals at the end of your chain before hitting the amp’s input.
 
IMO…this is really the best way to do it, unless you absolutely MUST play your rig WITH a delay pedal or the reverb on.

The only POSSIBLE reason I could ever think of for doing it the other way would be if you were using a cleanish amp sound and a fast timed delay with a repeat even with the original in volume, as an effect to, say, take an 8th note run and simulate a 16th. I.e - the effect you're after isn't a delayed guitar sound, but a guitar sound playing fast doubled notes.
 
Hi guys. I'm having this problem right now where I'm trying to record a section of music that I want to have thick, dreamy distortion like what you hear on shoegaze records (e.g. - My Bloody Valentine - Loveless)... but I only have a basic setup: a distortion pedal + amp, and I work using Reaper.

What happens is either I can maintain the melody (meaning the melody is audible/chord changes are recognizable and distinct) but the sound is too thin; OR, the sound is thick, wet and dreamy enough but I lose the melody under all the fuzz and distortion.

What do you think is the best way I can handle this considering what I'm working with?

I've split my guitar signal with my DI box with one output going directly to the mixer and another output as an input to my amp, which I mic into the mixer as well. For the rest of my setup, you can check out this thread: LINK

Thanks!
Sounds like you need better gear bub.
 
^ Sure, I'll work on it. I'll try to upload a sample on mediafire unless you have any other better site suggestions.

delay + fuzz + reverb = win?
Wait, my mistake...

Since the delay is built into the amp, the fuzz/distortion will be coming from the pedal, and the reverb will be added via the DAW... the correct sequence should be:

fuzz/distortion >>> delay >>> reverb

and technically, since I have another signal going through the DI-box directly into the mixer, that one won't have any delay on it.
 
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