Fret Level Question

Nola

Well-known member
A friend of mine has a crappy guitar that he asked me to set up. I did so, but after putting the truss rod and action where it should be, there is a lot of buzz.
It has dead frets (about 4 are high and causing this). He asked if I can level them. I told him I've never done it, but I kinda know the process, and he said just go for it because he only paid $10 for the guitar (it's a pretty good guitar for that price!). I planned to just use a triangle file, sharpie marker, and sandpaper to do this. Do I need any fancy tools like a radius block with sandpaper on it or crowing file , etc if it's just a few frets? To file them I was going to use a triangle file, and to crown them I was just going to use progressively finer grit sandpaper.
 
Dunno, but if you're going to practice, a $10 guitar that belongs to someone else seems an ideal place to start!
 
Do I need any fancy tools like a radius block with sandpaper on it or crowing file , etc if it's just a few frets? To file them I was going to use a triangle file, and to crown them I was just going to use progressively finer grit sandpaper.

After you flatten, to crown them, you need a fret file that is meant for that. You won't be able to create the crown/curve on the fret with just a triangle and sandpaper without a lot of fiddling, and it may come out squirrelly, especially if it's your first time at it.

If they're just a touch high, you might get away without a re-crown, but leveling them will usually flatten the tops...so you kinda want to put crown/curve back into the fret so that the strings have a clean single point of contact rather than laying across a flattened fret top.

If you had a crowning file, and only a few frets that were a bit high...that would be the best way to knock them down, rather than first flattening and then re-crowning, IMO. I've done single frets like that often.

Recent used guitar I picked up had a few frets with some string marks...so I just re-crowned them and polished them...and then the adjoining frets got a light touch so there was nothing abrupt in transition....rather than going first and flattening everything to one level, and then re-crowning everything.
It's a fret-by-fret call how you want to go about it, but I just don't want to have to redo the whole damn neck in a big way because of a couple of frets.
At some point down the road, depending on playing time, then I may redo the whole neck at some point.

You can pick up a decent crowing file for like $30-$50...and it will come in handy over time if you have a lot of guitars. :)
 
Thanks, man. So you think a crowning file is the way to go? I feared that. I was hoping to get away with what I have, but I guess I can't.
I might invest in one since eventually my guitars will need that type of work. They're pretty pricey, though.

Dunno, but if you're going to practice, a $10 guitar that belongs to someone else seems an ideal place to start!

Haha. Exactly.
 
you can make a tool to crown frets for little or nothing.
Here is a video. I have a nice growing file that works great, but I think I prefer the way this dude does it

YouTube
 
As far as the fret leveling goes, Go to a place that makes granite (amount other stone types) counter tops. Their dumpsters are filled with scrap pieces that are PERFECT for fret leveling. Go in and offer to buy a scrap piece and they will give it to you. The place I went to took me to the dumpster and said "help yourself". I picked out a couple of great pieces and they asked "Do you need them cut?" I told them yeah. The dude on the cutoff saw cut them for me the the owner said "no charge"... I gave the cutoff guy $10 anyway.

once you have a perfectly flat piece of stone (or whatever) you put double sided tape on it and attach sand paper. a lot say 180 grit but I recommend 400 on your first fret level. 180 takes a lot of meat off the frets really quickly. 400grit is more forgiving while you're still getting the hang of it.
 
I'm watching that video ^^^, and you can see the wood block move/wiggle a lot as he works it, it's not a precise tool.
It's so much easier and more precise with a proper file.

I've got the typical crowning file, which is usually like 1/2 a circle kind of shape...but I also have quarter round file which you place it against the side of the fret, do one side, and then the other...which is what he's doing in the video....but I don't have to keep shifting a wood block to create the curve, I just hold the file in one position. It's funny that he says he spends and hour and half now with his tool. With the right files, it's like 20-30 minutes work depending how much you have to do.

Here's the quarter-round file I'm talking about:
Quarter-round Fret File | stewmac.com

I would like to get one of the diamond-cut files for crowning...but they ain't cheap.
 
You will need another tool for a fret level. it's easy to make though. it's a straight edge with fret notches cut in it.

I just went to tractor supply (Lowes or home depot will suffice too). I went to the welding section and got a piece of galvanized steel. it was long enough to make 3 guitar straight edges out of and it was $7. (Aluminum would be even better)
you cut it to the length from in between the first fret and the nut to the last fret. lay it down flat on your fret board and with a sharper make a mark for each fret. Then take the straight edge and with either a grinder or a dremmel tool, cut out notches for the frets.
you use this too to make sure you truss has the neck perfectly flat before you start leveling the frets. The notches allow the straight edge to sit on your fret board instead of a straight edge sitting on top of your frets. You put this tool on the fretboard with a light behind it. if You see daylight in the middle you need to tighten it some more, if you see daylight on each end, you need to loosen it some more.

No day light on the ends or the middle means a flat fretboard....you're now ready to level the frets
 
As far as the fret leveling goes, Go to a place that makes granite (amount other stone types) counter tops. Their dumpsters are filled with scrap pieces that are PERFECT for fret leveling. Go in and offer to buy a scrap piece and they will give it to you. The place I went to took me to the dumpster and said "help yourself". I picked out a couple of great pieces and they asked "Do you need them cut?" I told them yeah. The dude on the cutoff saw cut them for me the the owner said "no charge"... I gave the cutoff guy $10 anyway.

once you have a perfectly flat piece of stone (or whatever) you put double sided tape on it and attach sand paper. a lot say 180 grit but I recommend 400 on your first fret level. 180 takes a lot of meat off the frets really quickly. 400grit is more forgiving while you're still getting the hang of it.

Yeah...that would work.
I have one of those flat, knife sharpening steel bars...has a fine grit on one side and smoother on the other. It also works great for checking the level and for high frets when you turn it on edge, since it's 14" thick steel plate, so it's 100% true, and it's wider than the neck...so you can work across the frets easy, without taking a lot off at once. Good for rejuvenating frets...but probably not so good if you're building and need to do that initial leveling job...it would take too long.
 
I'm watching that video ^^^, and you can see the wood block move/wiggle a lot as he works it, it's not a precise tool.
It's so much easier and more precise with a proper file.

I've got the typical crowning file, which is usually like 1/2 a circle kind of shape...but I also have quarter round file which you place it against the side of the fret, do one side, and then the other...which is what he's doing in the video....but I don't have to keep shifting a wood block to create the curve, I just hold the file in one position. It's funny that he says he spends and hour and half now with his tool. With the right files, it's like 20-30 minutes work depending how much you have to do.

Here's the quarter-round file I'm talking about:
Quarter-round Fret File | stewmac.com

I would like to get one of the diamond-cut files for crowning...but they ain't cheap.

Yeah, I have the crowning files and they are nice, but if they are not held level or not held paralelle to the fretboard...you can fuck things up in a hurry because they cut really fast.

if you level the frets, then mark them with a black magic marker. ...as long as you don't sand the line away on top of the frets it doesn't matter as much about the sides. The strings don't touch the sides...they only touch the top that is already leveled with the black line. you simple make the black line as thin as possible and then polish.
A lot of old school fret guys still use triangular files (with the points ground off) to crown with.

I will agree that if you are going to do several guitars that a crowning file makes for quicker work.

But the wood wedge with sand paper will do the job very well and $40 or so for a file to crown frets on a $10 guitar doesn't make sense.

Nola could always give the video method a shot and if he dosent like the crowns he gets.....buy the high priced file.

The frets will already be leveled and crowed at that point...they just may not be Guitar Player Magazine close up neck shot perfect.
:)
 
I'm just saying that the 1/4 round file will do what the guy in the video is doing more precisely and faster.
Plus, you can "roll" the 1/4 round file across the top too if needed.
And yeah...you need a light, smooth touch with a file, especially the more aggressive files.

I get it that the sides are not immediately/primarily in play with the strings... but when you fret, you're going to press the string down to the wood in-between, so it's not just kinda touching that thin line at the top, but rather it will bend down the sidewall of the fret too...so that's where I think you want a nice, smooth curved fret.

TBH...I hate most of the frets you get on most guitars these days...because there is some obsession with using bigger medium to large fret wire...and forget that "jumbo" shit. Yeah...they make playing easier...but the bigger frets can cause more pitch/tuning issues when playing, because you end up with a greater distance from the top of the crown to where the string meets the fretboard when you press.

I love my old vintage Hags for the fact that they have thin/small fret wire (the reissues use the bigger "medium" wire). Man, the thinner/smaller frets let me dig in as hard as I like, and didn't affect the pitch anywhere near what the bigger frets do. Of course, you didn't have as much opportunity to level and re-crown with small/thinner fret wire. Plus you have all kind of different shaped fret wire to go with the different sizes...I guess luthiers have their preferences, and maybe something to do with the type of guitar being built.

I've thought about leveling the reissue guitars way down to make them like the frets on the originals...but man....that's a LOT of work, and I would probably just fuck it all up! :p
 
I guess my main question after reading all the comments is can I just level the 4 uneven frets, or do I have to get a long straight edge and put sand paper on it and level all frets? I was thinking I could adjust the truss rod to straight, level the 4 uneven frets with a triangle file that I have, sand it to "polish" it, and call it a day.

But is it more proper to get a long straight edge, attach sandpaper to it, and level those uneven frets until they touch the others? It seems this could result in grinding down the middle frets more b/c with each stroke more sandpaper will hit them compared to the 21st fret and 1st fret.
 
TBH...I hate most of the frets you get on most guitars these days.


Man, I agree. I don't get it. Why large fret wire? It makes no sense. No fretwire should be the goal. Vintage comes closest.
If you can't bend on that then you stink and need to practice instead of upping the fretwire. I look forward to the day I grind down my 6105. I mean it's okay but vintage wire is so much better. Train tracks vs smooth as silk.
 
I guess my main question after reading all the comments is can I just level the 4 uneven frets, or do I have to get a long straight edge and put sand paper on it and level all frets? I was thinking I could adjust the truss rod to straight, level the 4 uneven frets with a triangle file that I have, sand it to "polish" it, and call it a day.

But is it more proper to get a long straight edge, attach sandpaper to it, and level those uneven frets until they touch the others? It seems this could result in grinding down the middle frets more b/c with each stroke more sandpaper will hit them compared to the 21st fret and 1st fret.

If you have 4 that are higher...and the rest are all uniform...just bang out those 4.
I guess if you can follow that guy's technique in the video with the wood (or just with file)...you can probably get away with needing a crowning file.
I mean...for a $10 guitar, you enough room to "fudge it" without any tears. :p
 
I'm just saying that the 1/4 round file will do what the guy in the video is doing more precisely and faster.
Plus, you can "roll" the 1/4 round file across the top too if needed.
And yeah...you need a light, smooth touch with a file, especially the more aggressive files.

I get it that the sides are not immediately/primarily in play with the strings... but when you fret, you're going to press the string down to the wood in-between, so it's not just kinda touching that thin line at the top, but rather it will bend down the sidewall of the fret too...so that's where I think you want a nice, smooth curved fret.

TBH...I hate most of the frets you get on most guitars these days...because there is some obsession with using bigger medium to large fret wire...and forget that "jumbo" shit. Yeah...they make playing easier...but the bigger frets can cause more pitch/tuning issues when playing, because you end up with a greater distance from the top of the crown to where the string meets the fretboard when you press.

I love my old vintage Hags for the fact that they have thin/small fret wire (the reissues use the bigger "medium" wire). Man, the thinner/smaller frets let me dig in as hard as I like, and didn't affect the pitch anywhere near what the bigger frets do. Of course, you didn't have as much opportunity to level and re-crown with small/thinner fret wire. Plus you have all kind of different shaped fret wire to go with the different sizes...I guess luthiers have their preferences, and maybe something to do with the type of guitar being built.

I've thought about leveling the reissue guitars way down to make them like the frets on the originals...but man....that's a LOT of work, and I would probably just fuck it all up! :p

i agree. I like the medium jumbos. The jumbo are too much and the vintage are not quite enough.
I really like the wire that allparts uses on their necks...it's perfect IMO.

On the reissues, you probably wouldn't fuck it up....but....you may end up saying to yourself...."it wasn't broke but I just HAD to fix it didn't I"
lol
buy yourself a cheapo Squier Bullet neck off ebay for $35 and practice on it.
They are actually pretty damn good necks, with a standard fender sized heel, but need a little more refined fret work
 
hey Miro,
I saw where you said you would like to get a diamond crowning file but they are really high.
I bought one off ebay from this guy. He is in the UK and shipping was incredibly fast considering that. The file is VERY nice and cuts so fast it's scary. Seriously, you could fuck up a fret beyond repair real quick, with the wrong pitch or bad technique.
I knocked out the brand new allparts neck in no time with it. Of course the frets were brand new and didn't require much leveling....thus a very light crowning job.
But, for less that $50 for a diamond file with a really nice hand carved handle....you can't beat it!!
Diamond Guitar Fret Crowning File with Oak Handle. Concave Profile TF085 5060489151469 | eBay
 
3AUq4AAOSwlY1ZEvXQ&_nkw=diamond+crowning+file&_from=R40&rt=nc&_trksid=p2380057.m4084.l1313.TR1.TRC0.A0.H0.Xdiamond+crowning+file.TRS0]Diamond Guitar Fret Crowning File with Oak Handle. Concave Profile TF085 5060489151469 | eBay[/url]

How does the handle feel?
I'm always leery with weird-shaped handles...they can be perfect for one person and awkward for another.
Otherwise looks pretty decent.

StewMac has a couple of diamond coated files and crowning files...maybe a fee bucks more, but they are also a bit bigger with more file surface area.
 
How does the handle feel?
I'm always leery with weird-shaped handles...they can be perfect for one person and awkward for another.
Otherwise looks pretty decent.

StewMac has a couple of diamond coated files and crowning files...maybe a fee bucks more, but they are also a bit bigger with more file surface area.

I think the handle is perfect. Very easy to keep parallel to the fret and very comfortable on the hand.

Yeah, stew Mac sells really good tools too, you can't go wrong with their stuff. There is plenty of surface area on the file. I haven't found anything I don't like about it yet.
 
This is pretty much the process I planned to use since I have that triangle file, sandpaper, tape, and a marker. I'm not sure how fine a grit I have...he uses the micro mesh stuff which is really fine.

YouTube

Do you think that's fine for just doing a handful of frets?

PS. Philadelphia luthier supply has good tools at good prices. Same quality as stewmac at like half the price.
 
Yeah...that should work OK for a few frets. Just watch that bottom edge of the triangle file...it can cut through that safety tape easy. Put down a couple of pieces, and as soon as you see the top piece getting cut, put down a fresh one.

They have those metal guard bands that fit around the fret and protect the wood. I've thought about getting them (I see the guy from GB that Jimi bought his file from includes one in the package he sells). They have them at StewMac too...with a rubber band of sorts to hold it in place, which is cool.
Good stuff for when you have a lot of guitars...but for a few frets, some masking tape does the job.
 
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